slimboyfat

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Posts by slimboyfat

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  92

  There is no such thing as Agnosticism. Agnostics do not exist!

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  many here seem to believe that the position of agnosticism is somehow more reasonable than theism or atheism.

  nonsense!

  it is a misconception to believe that belief or non-belief in the existence of god/s are the two extremes which glare at each other over the fence of agnosticism.

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  slimboyfat

  This idea of atheism only appears to deal with a certain kind of God about whom specific claims are made. The kind of God JWs have. I don't think this definition of atheism takes negative theology into account. That God can exist and not-exist, or neither, without being bound by definitions. When I think of God I think of God in these terms, or not in these terms, as the case may be.

  http://religiondispatches.org/way-beyond-atheism-god-does-not-not-exist/
  

  The atheisms of most committed, principled atheists are often not more than mirror images—inversions—of the theisms they negate. In On Interpretation, Aristotle wrote, “Affirmations and their corresponding negations are one in the same knowledge”; therefore, one can discern from many atheisms their corresponding affirmative theologies.

  Turner also writes that, very often, the theisms attacked by atheists are not very interesting; therefore, the atheisms of most committed, principled atheists are not very interesting. Why this is so is not clear; perhaps it is because in many cases theism was abandoned before it was allowed time to develop into something of substance.
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  12

  Sunday Tv - Jehovah's Witnesses Paedophilia in Australia

  by berrygerry in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  if only someone had listened back then!.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy8b22hs9me.

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  slimboyfat

  Yes I am further through it now. It was around the same time as Dateline in the US and Panorama in the UK.
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  108

  BIG NEWS! Leader of German Watchtower History Archives Resignes and Leaves Branch Office!

  by GermanXJW in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  johannes wrobel, the founder of the watchtower history archives in germany, responsible for the stand firm-video and the stand-firm-exhibitions resigned in november 2008 and left the german branch office.

  he was also the responsible person for many of the wt sponsored websites on jw in the 'third reich'!.

  there are no further details known yet but this could be big news!.

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  slimboyfat

  He says that Lloyd Barry encouraged the historical work at Selters in Germany. But when Barry died in 1999 their work was no longer supported. Jaracz in particular was very dismissive of the historical work and in 2008 he closed it down. That was two years before Jaracz died in 2010.
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  12

  Sunday Tv - Jehovah's Witnesses Paedophilia in Australia

  by berrygerry in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  if only someone had listened back then!.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy8b22hs9me.

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  slimboyfat

  The phrase "shining as illuminations" from clip is associated with 1992 and 2003 district conventions. Could it be as old as 1992?

  http://printcentralandsigns.com/jwtalks/DC/1992.HTM

  Perhaps 2003 more likely.

  http://printcentralandsigns.com/jwtalks/DC/2003PhillyPA.HTM
  
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  108

  BIG NEWS! Leader of German Watchtower History Archives Resignes and Leaves Branch Office!

  by GermanXJW in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  johannes wrobel, the founder of the watchtower history archives in germany, responsible for the stand firm-video and the stand-firm-exhibitions resigned in november 2008 and left the german branch office.

  he was also the responsible person for many of the wt sponsored websites on jw in the 'third reich'!.

  there are no further details known yet but this could be big news!.

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  slimboyfat

  Lots of interesting information here. A real insight from a prominent former insider.

  He says German JWs gathered information about their persecution and sent it to Brooklyn after the war. But Knorr ordered the archive be destroyed because they should not promote individuals, instead they should forget about the past and draw a line under it.
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  57

  How do we know JWs are wrong and how do we convince others JWs are wrong: logic versus persuasion

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we like to think we are logical and have good reasons for for our beliefs.

  no more so than when it comes to our reasons for rejecting the truth claims of jws.

  we reject their version of history, such as the date of the fall of jerusalem, because it doesn't agree with the historical evidence.

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  slimboyfat

  https://youtu.be/7Ha34Vu1zZo
  
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  57

  How do we know JWs are wrong and how do we convince others JWs are wrong: logic versus persuasion

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we like to think we are logical and have good reasons for for our beliefs.

  no more so than when it comes to our reasons for rejecting the truth claims of jws.

  we reject their version of history, such as the date of the fall of jerusalem, because it doesn't agree with the historical evidence.

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  slimboyfat

  I am absolutely certain I know me a hell of a lot better than you know me.

  I am not aware of ever saying otherwise.

  What I am saying is that none of us seem to understand what motivates us very well or why we make the decisions we do. This seems to be the mainstream view.

  I am also saying that the fact ex-JWs tend to join mainstream alternatives in their community when they leave can't (logically!) be a complete coincidence.

  Why not engage with these ideas instead of insisting on making it personal?
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  6

  How would a jc be conducted by the elders concerning one that's claims he's anointed?

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what applies to the dump class and the anointed class has to be completely different because the new testament applies to the anointed and not to the dumb class also known as the jonadab class , so what do you think?

  has any ex elders here had any experience in this?.

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  slimboyfat

  It probably depends a lot on whether the are viewed as genuine anointed or crackpot anointed. Not all anointed are equal.

  A member of the governing body could expect radically different treatment than an eccentric nobody who takes the wine at your local Kingdom Hall.

  We know that two GB members were kicked off the GB. Did they have judicial committees? It's not hard to imagine that lesser anointed JWs might have been DFed in similar circumstances, but if you're on the GB then demotion is considered sanction enough.
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  57

  How do we know JWs are wrong and how do we convince others JWs are wrong: logic versus persuasion

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we like to think we are logical and have good reasons for for our beliefs.

  no more so than when it comes to our reasons for rejecting the truth claims of jws.

  we reject their version of history, such as the date of the fall of jerusalem, because it doesn't agree with the historical evidence.

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  slimboyfat

  By the way, when reading about logical fallacies, I came across the name for the logical fallacy you use when dismissing my arguments about perspectivism: argumentum ad lapidem.
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  57

  How do we know JWs are wrong and how do we convince others JWs are wrong: logic versus persuasion

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we like to think we are logical and have good reasons for for our beliefs.

  no more so than when it comes to our reasons for rejecting the truth claims of jws.

  we reject their version of history, such as the date of the fall of jerusalem, because it doesn't agree with the historical evidence.

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  slimboyfat

  Cofty I think none of us know ourselves very well.

  Like I said above, I have been reading books about what influences us and why we make decisions and I find many of the arguments compelling. Two major reasons we do things are 1) we perceive others making a certain choice and figure that it must therefore be a good choice to make and 2) we follow what are (or appear to be) authoritative instructions. These influences account for most of the decisions we make in life big and small. Yet when we explain our decisions to ourselves we explain them in terms of rational choices and logical arguments. This is not a crackpot theory about human decision making, from what I can gather this is a mainstream consensus in psychology about decision making. As someone who respects expert opinion and academic consensus you could maybe look into it if you are interested. In particular the work Robert Cialdini.
  

  And I think it's a bit incredible to claim to have left JWs and joined a mainstream alternative without any outside influence. If outside influence played no part whatever, why didn't your search for the truth lead to Lutheranism, or the Orthodox Church, or even Jainism, or whatever else? Why did it just happen to lead you to join a church belonging to the dominant Protestant faith in your country? There was no influence from anyone around at all? None? It's an amazing coincidence that a pure search for truth just happens to lead to the church down the road.
  

  Like Dawkins says, children of Anglicans, in normal circumstances, grow up to be Anglicans. It's an accident of birth. We are influenced by the people around us, ex-JWs are no exception.

  Was there no friend, no workmate, no family member, no person on the bus, in the gym, or at the local shop, who said anything to you to indicate that leaving JWs might be a good idea and that there was a better alternative that others have chosen? I had many such interactions during my short time as a JW. It's hard for me to tell which were most significant, but they all surely played some part.