slimboyfat

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Posts by slimboyfat

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  66

  Who will Survive Armageddon?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  breaking news....there is hope for good hearted non-jws!!!.

  according to sergio:.

  are jehovah's witnesses the only ones to be saved during the end time?.

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  slimboyfat

  All the hours were real, even if many of them were in our hearts 1 Peter 3:15
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  28

  An interesting Observation of some Bibles

  by Blotty in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  first of all, hi, i go by blotty on this website :) i am someone who has a passion for the bible and like to get a as balanced view as i can from the trinitarian and the jw (or unitarian) side - even though i come off as leaning towards one or the other at times, in my opinion they both have merits in certain cases..if this is in the wrong section i apologise - this is just something i found interesting.iv seen online a lot that say the watchtower and tract society "invented" the link between proverbs 8:22 - 30 and jesus (the word).

  yet interestingly some "mainstream" "trinitarian- aimed" translations are cross referencing the following:source:https://www.biblegateway.comprov 8:22 cr rev 3:14niv, gnt,esv, nasb, nasb1995, nasbre, cevprov 8:30 cr john 1:1,2 esv nasbprov 8:30 cr john 1:3esvnasb1995nasb(this list is by no means complete)if this is simply wisdom, why is it referenced with jesus (or the word)?.

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  slimboyfat

  When the spirit is personified it is a way of speaking about God and his actions in the world. It doesn’t mean the spirit itself is a person, but it points to God (who is a person) and his action in the world.

  When wisdom is personified in Proverbs 8:22ff it is a way of speaking about Jesus and his life with God before coming to earth. It doesn’t mean that wisdom itself is a person, but it points to Jesus as God’s first creation, who became a human and dwelt with mankind.

  So it is correct to say that personification doesn’t make either the spirit or wisdom into persons. But on some occasions when the spirit and wisdom are personified then it is a way of speaking about God and his Son respectively.

  I think that attempting to argue that Prov 8:22ff is not referring to Jesus is a difficult road to go down from a Christian perspective, because NT authors draw upon wisdom and take it for granted as a way of talking about Jesus, implicitly (John 1:1–18; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14) and explicitly (1 Cor 1:30). Early Christian authors identified Prov 8:22ff as referring to Jesus on all sides of the debate over Christology. In fact it was one of the most often quoted passages in the entire OT as applying to Jesus. Verses 30 and 31 of Proverbs 8 are so apt as description of Jesus that, if you believe in Jesus and believe in the Bible, then it’s difficult to avoid the conclusion that this is meant (inspired) to be taken as a reference to Jesus.

  30 then I was beside him, like a master worker; (or little child)
  and I was daily his delight,
  rejoicing before him always,
  31 rejoicing in his inhabited world
  and delighting in the human race.
  
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  28

  An interesting Observation of some Bibles

  by Blotty in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  first of all, hi, i go by blotty on this website :) i am someone who has a passion for the bible and like to get a as balanced view as i can from the trinitarian and the jw (or unitarian) side - even though i come off as leaning towards one or the other at times, in my opinion they both have merits in certain cases..if this is in the wrong section i apologise - this is just something i found interesting.iv seen online a lot that say the watchtower and tract society "invented" the link between proverbs 8:22 - 30 and jesus (the word).

  yet interestingly some "mainstream" "trinitarian- aimed" translations are cross referencing the following:source:https://www.biblegateway.comprov 8:22 cr rev 3:14niv, gnt,esv, nasb, nasb1995, nasbre, cevprov 8:30 cr john 1:1,2 esv nasbprov 8:30 cr john 1:3esvnasb1995nasb(this list is by no means complete)if this is simply wisdom, why is it referenced with jesus (or the word)?.

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  slimboyfat

  Sorry, yes I mixed up Luther and Calvin.

  Yes the idea that Jesus is the archangel Michael is something JWs share with the Adventist tradition.
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  28

  An interesting Observation of some Bibles

  by Blotty in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  first of all, hi, i go by blotty on this website :) i am someone who has a passion for the bible and like to get a as balanced view as i can from the trinitarian and the jw (or unitarian) side - even though i come off as leaning towards one or the other at times, in my opinion they both have merits in certain cases..if this is in the wrong section i apologise - this is just something i found interesting.iv seen online a lot that say the watchtower and tract society "invented" the link between proverbs 8:22 - 30 and jesus (the word).

  yet interestingly some "mainstream" "trinitarian- aimed" translations are cross referencing the following:source:https://www.biblegateway.comprov 8:22 cr rev 3:14niv, gnt,esv, nasb, nasb1995, nasbre, cevprov 8:30 cr john 1:1,2 esv nasbprov 8:30 cr john 1:3esvnasb1995nasb(this list is by no means complete)if this is simply wisdom, why is it referenced with jesus (or the word)?.

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  slimboyfat

  Earnest, if I recall correctly, Luther believed that Jesus is the archangel Michael, as do Seventh-day Adventists, but claim it is compatible with Trinitarianism.
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  slimboyfat

  The minutes say that Lloyd is from “JWatch” rather than “JW Watch”, a simple spelling mistake, but it doesn’t look like they scrutinised his credentials very far, or cared much what he supposedly represented.

  Until now I assumed that the remaining Patreons were somehow supportive of his actions, but is it possible that many of them are still in the dark?
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  28

  An interesting Observation of some Bibles

  by Blotty in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  first of all, hi, i go by blotty on this website :) i am someone who has a passion for the bible and like to get a as balanced view as i can from the trinitarian and the jw (or unitarian) side - even though i come off as leaning towards one or the other at times, in my opinion they both have merits in certain cases..if this is in the wrong section i apologise - this is just something i found interesting.iv seen online a lot that say the watchtower and tract society "invented" the link between proverbs 8:22 - 30 and jesus (the word).

  yet interestingly some "mainstream" "trinitarian- aimed" translations are cross referencing the following:source:https://www.biblegateway.comprov 8:22 cr rev 3:14niv, gnt,esv, nasb, nasb1995, nasbre, cevprov 8:30 cr john 1:1,2 esv nasbprov 8:30 cr john 1:3esvnasb1995nasb(this list is by no means complete)if this is simply wisdom, why is it referenced with jesus (or the word)?.

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  slimboyfat

  Yes from what I understand the most straightforward understanding of Rev 3:14 is that Jesus is “the beginning of the creation of God”, i.e. the first one created. I think Hugh Schonfield has a footnote at this verse where he says that clearly the early Christians believed Jesus was a created being.

  Trinitarians have a number of responses to this. As you mention, some argue that the word archē here doesn’t mean “beginning”, but “ruler”, and others “origin”. Yet the go-to scholarly Greek lexicon (known by the initials BDAG) in the latest edition says that it means “beginning” in this verse.

  Other Trinitarians, who accept “beginning of the creation of God” as the correct translation, will argue that this does not refer to Jesus as the first creation of God, but refers to the “new creation” instead. I suppose this means it is acceptable for Trinitarians to describe Jesus as a creation in the context of the “new creation” but not in relation to the original creation.

  There are so many verses that Trinitarians must “explain away” if they are to maintain that Jesus was not created or did not have a beginning: “he created me, the beginning of his way” (Prov 8:22); “the firstborn of all creation” (Col 1:15); “the beginning of the creation of God” (Rev 3:14); “I live because of the Father” (John 6:57). Another one I came across the other day while reading a book by Maurice Wiles is Hebrews 3:2. This verse seems to apply the word “made” to Jesus (see the original NWT), which is a word that later Trinitarians argued was heresy if applied to Jesus. If Jesus wasn’t created by God then you have got to wonder why so many parts of the Bible give that impression and need to be explained away in order to conform with later dogma.
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  slimboyfat

  Well there’s is only 1 person in this room, so I must be the most important person ever. Beat that Lloyd!
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  2

  Needed!----1960 Invitations for the Memorial

  by Atlantis in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one of the members here is looking for memorial invitations for 1960. if anyone here could help out it would be appreciated.

  (i have lots of invitations but that one particular year of 1960 seems to be missing.).

  i'll buy the next round!

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  slimboyfat

  Wow, that’s an obscure request, but if anyone can do it it’s you Atlantis!
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  slimboyfat

  It was LE who gave the king that faulty pen, that explains it! 🖊

  Didn't LE used to publicise his engagements ahead of time so people could meet up with him and so on? I guess the reason he kept this engagement a secret was in case his reputation preceded him and he was excluded from the meeting. That’s why the photo in Westminster Hall and his grin looks a bit like him gloating about getting away with attending the meeting without the organisers being made aware about him beforehand.
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  28

  An interesting Observation of some Bibles

  by Blotty in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  first of all, hi, i go by blotty on this website :) i am someone who has a passion for the bible and like to get a as balanced view as i can from the trinitarian and the jw (or unitarian) side - even though i come off as leaning towards one or the other at times, in my opinion they both have merits in certain cases..if this is in the wrong section i apologise - this is just something i found interesting.iv seen online a lot that say the watchtower and tract society "invented" the link between proverbs 8:22 - 30 and jesus (the word).

  yet interestingly some "mainstream" "trinitarian- aimed" translations are cross referencing the following:source:https://www.biblegateway.comprov 8:22 cr rev 3:14niv, gnt,esv, nasb, nasb1995, nasbre, cevprov 8:30 cr john 1:1,2 esv nasbprov 8:30 cr john 1:3esvnasb1995nasb(this list is by no means complete)if this is simply wisdom, why is it referenced with jesus (or the word)?.

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  slimboyfat

  The link was well established in the early church so that the major Trinitarian advocates of the fourth century, Alexander and Athanasius didn’t disagree that Proverbs 8:22ff applied to Jesus but rather disputed the meaning of wisdom being “created” in this passage.

  There are many parallels to wisdom in John 1, including for example the idea of the Word/Wisdom pitching its tent with mankind.