Posts by slimboyfat

68

Where it all went wrong for the WT - JF Rutherford

by LoveUniHateExams in

i was thinking a bit about this the other day.

ct russell, from what i remember about him, kinda seemed like a genuine, nice(ish) guy, although he had a few eccentric but harmless ideas.. during the russell era jws (actually bible students) could still celebrate christmas, worship in other churches if there was no kingdom hall available, and accept blood transfusions.. then after russell died, along came rutherford - a major league a-hole, for sure.. rutherford had plenty of eccentric ideas but at least some of them weren't/aren't harmless.

some have been long forgotten about - jesus depicted without a beard, the plan to rename the names of the week because names such as thursday (thor's day) is pagan, the articles about the 'dangers' of aluminium, etc.. one key contribution of rutherford which does a lot of harm is no blood transfusions, even in life-threatening situations.. another is shunning, something which never occurred under russell, or at least was much milder.. rutherford has a lot to answer for, i reckon ....

slimboyfat

Ha, that’s a good answer Ozzie.

I’d still point out there are various verses in the New Testament that indicate true Christians are not among the well educated. So pointing to Russell’s lack of education isn’t really an argument against him from a scriptural point of view.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the speech about the torture stake is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is God’s power. For it is written: “I will make the wisdom of the wise men perish, and the intelligence of the intellectuals I will reject.” Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this system of things? Has not God made the wisdom of the world foolish? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not get to know God through its wisdom, God was pleased through the foolishness of what is preached to save those believing. For the Jews ask for signs and the Greeks look for wisdom; but we preach Christ executed on the stake, to the Jews a cause for stumbling but to the nations foolishness. However, to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because a foolish thing of God is wiser than men, and a weak thing of God is stronger than men. For you see his calling of you, brothers, that there are not many wise in a fleshly way, not many powerful, not many of noble birth, but God chose the foolish things of the world to put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world to put the strong things to shame; and God chose the insignificant things of the world and the things looked down on, the things that are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, so that no one might boast in the sight of God. But it is due to him that you are in union with Christ Jesus, who has become to us wisdom from God, also righteousness and sanctification and release by ransom, so that it may be just as it is written: “The one who boasts, let him boast in Jehovah.”

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

slimboyfat

He’s the one who threatened to fly to Australia to pursue Kim and he won’t give up until he’s 84!

Again he is accusing the other person of doing what he is doing.

I guess Kim, as others in the wake of this car crash, is trying to piece together how on Earth this monstrous situation arose, and a lot of it points back to LE’s early dodgy activities at that KH in the UK.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

slimboyfat

This is so ridiculous. He won’t even say what he is accusing people of having said that is not true. He can’t because it’s entirely bogus. He thinks that if he lies often enough, and declares himself to be the victim loudly enough, that people won’t see that he is lying. I can see how his method might work, because you just don’t expect someone to lie so outrageously and adamantly. It’s like if you saw someone screaming and balling in the street that they had been attacked, you would just assume they must be telling the truth, because otherwise why would they be behaving like that. In reality he is trying to distract attention from his own harmful behaviour and he reckons that if he relentlessly points the finger at others hysterically, then onlookers will take his side. It’s interesting how quickly Andrew Gold and Dr Sohom Das saw through his act and called him out for what he is, and interesting too that he isn’t pursuing them for libel. I guess he realises there is no way of changing their opinion and he has nothing to gain and everything to lose from challenging them. He has his eye on new followers and financial backers and reckons his hysterical finger pointing and claims of victimhood will reel in a few new supporters.

27

Did the Watchtower Society ban Vaccinations and Organ Transplants?

by Vanderhoven7 in

an avid wts supporter writes:.

re: vaccinations: vaccinations have never been banned.

if they were, then no representative of the wts would have been allowed to travel overseas when vaccines were compulsory around 1920 when vaccines was regularly in the news, there was both positive and negative information printed in the golden age (forerunner of the awake) but not from the staff writers, but from out side sources of article by medical doctors at the time and others that responded to those articles.. re: organ transplants: organ transplants were never forbidden by the society.

slimboyfat

It is true, some of the articles in Golden Age did not reflect official JW teaching. It was a bit rogue, under the stewardship of Clayton Woodworth.

27

Did the Watchtower Society ban Vaccinations and Organ Transplants?

by Vanderhoven7 in

an avid wts supporter writes:.

re: vaccinations: vaccinations have never been banned.

if they were, then no representative of the wts would have been allowed to travel overseas when vaccines were compulsory around 1920 when vaccines was regularly in the news, there was both positive and negative information printed in the golden age (forerunner of the awake) but not from the staff writers, but from out side sources of article by medical doctors at the time and others that responded to those articles.. re: organ transplants: organ transplants were never forbidden by the society.

slimboyfat

Sorry that was a delayed post above, those are good quotes from Earnest and others. There does seem to be strong evidence that transplants were prohibited and/or it was reasonable for ordinary JWs to infer it was a disfellowshipping offence.

27

Did the Watchtower Society ban Vaccinations and Organ Transplants?

by Vanderhoven7 in

an avid wts supporter writes:.

re: vaccinations: vaccinations have never been banned.

if they were, then no representative of the wts would have been allowed to travel overseas when vaccines were compulsory around 1920 when vaccines was regularly in the news, there was both positive and negative information printed in the golden age (forerunner of the awake) but not from the staff writers, but from out side sources of article by medical doctors at the time and others that responded to those articles.. re: organ transplants: organ transplants were never forbidden by the society.

slimboyfat

Could that quote possibly mean that judicial committees had been taking action on organ transplants, but Watchtower were clarifying that this was not the official position? It doesn’t necessarily mean they are reversing a previous position. It could also mean that they are correctly bodies of elders who had arrived at that position themselves on the basis of statements in the Watchtower against transplantation.
I haven’t seen any official Watchtower instruction to disfellowship someone for accepting a transplant, although it’s always possible the instruction was delivered verbally.

27

Did the Watchtower Society ban Vaccinations and Organ Transplants?

by Vanderhoven7 in

an avid wts supporter writes:.

re: vaccinations: vaccinations have never been banned.

if they were, then no representative of the wts would have been allowed to travel overseas when vaccines were compulsory around 1920 when vaccines was regularly in the news, there was both positive and negative information printed in the golden age (forerunner of the awake) but not from the staff writers, but from out side sources of article by medical doctors at the time and others that responded to those articles.. re: organ transplants: organ transplants were never forbidden by the society.

slimboyfat

There were certainly strong statements in the Watchtower against organ transplants, but I don’t know any concrete statement that it was a disfellowshipping offence. I’ve also been looking out for examples for over 20 years and I have not yet come across a story of a JW who died for refusing an organ transplant because of the Watchtower’s opposition to transplants. If anybody knows of any it would be useful to share details, including a source, if possible.

I suspect that they changed their stance on organ transplants early enough so that they had changed their position by the time that organ transplants had become commonplace. It’s worth bearing in mind that other religious groups were also skeptical about the ethics of transplants when it was a new medical treatment.

Having said all that, I do know a JW who refused a heart transplant in the 1990s who probably died earlier than he otherwise would have because of that decision. His reasoning was that he didn’t believe it was possible to get a heart transplant without blood because the heart is full of blood. So for him, and it was his own reasoning, not anyone else, refusing blood necessitated also refusing a heart transplant in particular.

26

JW's in war zone

by Gorb in

jw
friends

there is so much silence about the jw's in the ukraine conflict.

are the jw men arrested because they don't want to fight?

how is that going in the hyper nationalist fase the country is in?

slimboyfat

Waton the contours of a peace deal were well known (Ukrainian neutrality and autonomy for Russian zones) and western leaders talked Ukraine out of accepting a peace deal. Many in Ukraine wanted the peace deal. Indeed at various points Zelensky himself wanted the deal. The end result of this war is likely to be significantly worse than the peace deal they could have struck at the beginning. The only ones who win are weapons manufacturers.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

slimboyfat

That rant from LE is pure evil. (Sorry but that’s the best word for it) He still accuses Kim without naming a single inaccuracy in anything she has said. He blames her for consequences he has entirely brought upon himself and he attempts to bully her once again into revealing information about herself which have absolutely nothing to do with the sorry situation LE has created for himself. What a nasty, stupid individual. If he had his way he would continue bullying people like this indefinitely. Those who argue ‘just give him a break’ are misguided.

26

JW's in war zone

by Gorb in

jw
friends

there is so much silence about the jw's in the ukraine conflict.

are the jw men arrested because they don't want to fight?

how is that going in the hyper nationalist fase the country is in?

slimboyfat

Very possible. Not heard anything about that.

I had heard there was a specific programme to relocate Ukrainian JW refugees in Norway and possibly other Nordic countries, but that was in the early days.

The mainstream news about Ukrainian refugees in general in the UK has turned in recent weeks to the fact that UK government support is running out and some UK residents are losing enthusiasm for hosting Ukrainians.

I think this is incredibly cynical: having goaded Ukraine into war with Russia, the depth of commitment to taking care of Ukrainian refugees seems to be pretty shallow. It’s almost as if war and weapon sales are more important to western powers than democracy or humanitarian considerations.

https://youtu.be/N3pnFR7DeZA