Posts by slimboyfat

33

So how did JF Rutherford function...?

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

every picture i have seen at him at beth shirim and other private places are with a bottle of alcohol.. while for me personally i couldn't care less anymore.... for jw's this is low moral character.

so i'm an going to guess he was a functioning alcoholic... how did that work with his closest workers?

was he gay too?

The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

by slimboyfat in

jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

I think JWs have agreed that Jesus may be called God in Heb 1:8 and they have no problem with Jesus being called God. They point out that the original recipient of the Psalm (Solomon?) was also called God, in that case, as a representative of Jehovah. On the other hand, as Wonderment points out, there are many Bible versions and commentators who translate and understand theos in the verse as nominative, as the NWT does, and not vocative.

I think JWs are right about the divine name in the NT, but that doesn't mean they are right about every single case where the name is either used or not used. These are judgements. It should probably be used in Heb 1:10, however the specific text that is quoted doesn't contain the name in the extant Hebrew, so an argument can be made. In any case the NT is consistent in distinguishing Jesus from God and saying that Jesus is God's representative. Hebrews 1 is consistent with that.

332

The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

by slimboyfat in

jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

slimboyfat

Good point OrphanCrow, that's one I always wondered about too. I can't see any justification for not using Jehovah in Heb 1:10 other than it's embarrassing for JWs to explain why Jesus is apparently called Jehovah here.

There might possibly be an issue with the Hebrew, inasmuch as I'm not sure if the divine name is used in this Psalm in Hebrew in the places where the later Christian LXX has Lord.

But I don't think they should be afraid of translating such verses that apply the name Jehovah to Jesus, because the NT says that Jesus is given the name above every name. (Phil 2) In other words the name of God is given to Jesus and he acts as Jehovah's representative. It was customary for a representative of the monarch to be addressed as the monarch, and this is the scenario that is applied to Jesus. Plus another angle is that Hebrews 1 isn't necessarily identifying Jesus with Jehovah in Heb 1:10 any more than, strictly speaking, it is identifying Jesus with Solomon(?) in Heb 1:8. Because the phrase it uses is "with respect to the son" rather than addressing the son. Indicating it's aspects of the Son's character rather than an identification that is in focus.

But I agree, if being consistent, Heb 1:10 should probably use God's name even if the extant Hebrew doesn't have the Tetragram, because the assumption should reasonably be that the LXX was based on a Hebrew text that did contain the name, and that the early LXX would have used the name.

There are a few other such examples but this is a good example.

332

The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

by slimboyfat in

jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

slimboyfat

Was that me? I think that might have been days ago, and half asleep.

332

The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

by slimboyfat in

jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

slimboyfat

If it's unrealistic all Argentinans could be pascifist then it's unrealistic all British people could be pascificf. You can't have it both ways.

332

The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

by slimboyfat in

jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

slimboyfat

When JWs opted out of WWII that was morally reprehensible.

Like August Dickmann? If everyone had acted as he did there would have been no war and no Holocaust. Dickman and men like him were true heroes.

19

I think it's possible for a change of trend in JW growth

by Chook in

just like after decades of memorial partakers declining and now reversed.

this information age might reverse the trend of jw membership.

.

slimboyfat

sir82 a key trend that indicates decline is imminent is the fall in baptisms. There are not enough new JWs to replace those who dying, leaving or excluded.

It's true that, in absolute terms, baptism numbers have only declined a little. But in relative terms baptisms are at an all time low and falling. See the "baptisms as a percentage of publishers" graph on Paul's site.

https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php

In addition, a weird bump in publishers in the Congo inflated numbers last year. They can't count on that again next year. That's why I think it could easily be close to zero growth within a couple of years.

332

The most successful teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and an amazing new book on the divine name

by slimboyfat in

jehovah's witnesses have had to revise their chronology and various doctrinal interpretations due to events and scholarly corrections.

but the one teaching where they have been consistently ahead of the curve is the importance of jehovah's name.. .

i'm going to run through a (necessarily selective) timeline of jw events and scholarly publications that demonstrate the phenomenal success of this teaching in the last days.

slimboyfat

Well if that ever happened then they would no longer be fulfilling the requirement to love one another by not taking up arms against each other. It seems a basic tenet of natural justice that you judge people on what they actually do rather than what they might do. As it stands the record of JWs refusing to kill each other as other religions do is impressive.

22

How smart were the ancients?

by Coded Logic in

growing up as a jw, i always thought the ancients were scientific morons who knew next to nothing.

ashamedly, i used to run around citing isaiah 40:22 as proof of the bible's 'divine authorship' because it talked about "the circle of the earth".

as though this were somehow an unknowable before spaceflight.

slimboyfat

The tract "The Bible vs. The Evolution Theory" (1898) argued that, while the modern age benefits from accumulated knowledge, humans of earlier centuries had greater abilities, and that human intellect has degraded over the centuries. It points to superior examples of art, poetry and even science in previous eras:

"In the Sciences. Of present day art and sciences special boast is made; and we are ready to admit generally the claim, accounting for it as before explained. Nevertheless, it behooves us to remember that the people of the past accomplished wonders without our modern appliances... We are not to forget, either, that some of the valuable arts of the past were so thoroughly lost that even with all our present-day enlightenment they have not yet been re-discovered: for instance, the process of manufacturing flexible glass; and the process of tempering steel which gave the swords of Damascus a world-wide fame for flexibility; and the process of tempering copper so as to render it useful for tools. And while considering these matters we are to remember that the Scriptures indicate not only that the Children of Israel became much degraded through their several centuries of bondage in Egypt, but also that among all the gentiles there was a retrogression."

da-ip.getmyip.com:8080/PDF/Old%20Publications/1898%20-%20The%20Bible%20versus%20The%20Evolution%20Theory%20-%20text.pdf

22

How smart were the ancients?

by Coded Logic in

growing up as a jw, i always thought the ancients were scientific morons who knew next to nothing.

ashamedly, i used to run around citing isaiah 40:22 as proof of the bible's 'divine authorship' because it talked about "the circle of the earth".

as though this were somehow an unknowable before spaceflight.

slimboyfat

Actually, growing up around old-time JWs, who liked to speculate a lot, and read the old literature, I was exposed to the opposite idea. It is an early Bible Student teaching that the closer to Adam humans were, the nearer perfection, and hence more intelligent. In their early tracts against evolution, one of the key arguments Russell made was that humans are getting less intelligent over the centuries, therefore evolution can't be true. This betrayed a superficial understanding of evolution, but it also showed that Bible Students regarded ancient humans as superior to modern humans.

In particlar I remember the idea being floated that there were advanced civilisations before the flood of Noah, and part of the reason for the flood and the destruction of the Tower of Babel was to stall human progress which had advanced far too quickly because humans were still near perfection.