AnnOMaly
An oldie by Queen. Theme song to the 1980 Flash Gordon movie.
'Ah ahhh' I will definately pick up that CD! Thank you.
Hang on. So all Christian institutions, now including the WTS, have been rejected, but JWs themselves are approved and you allow for the possibility that the RF of other religious groups are also approved - even though their core doctrines would disqualify them. I find that a teensy bit contradictory.
I'm thinking in terms of all of us being judged ultimately as indivduals. God, who is love, showing mercy by reading everyones heart, and approving people based on that rather than what religion their in. Counting on it really, since the Witnesses as a religion have failed miserably at being what God and Christ intended, a shining example of a truely loving religion that would naturaly draw people, instead they earned a reputation as a high control religion and cult thus undermining completely their own preaching work. Few people consider joining them and many are leaving. Plus Armageddon means eternal destruction for those who aren't approved. So I believe God will consider His people's failure and make allowances for those sincere in heart toward Him even with their inaccurate knowledge of Him.
Remember Abraham's talk with God before the destuction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Although the people in those cities didn't qualify, God was willing to spare them if He found even 5 good people in them. I will admit, I'm speculating here. I'm basing it on God's valuing the lives of good people in the past, so it seems to me that He'll do it in the future. Plus there are places around the world that will barely hear about Him and His promises. I can't believe He wont make allowance for that.
In any case, JWs - according to what you said - can't exclusively be God's people if ones from other groups may be counted as worthy in God's eyes.
I disagree. The Witnesses today, are just like the ancient Jews were, with all the evil and corruption in them. In spite of it the Jews were "God's people" right up until the cutain in the inner sanctuary was torn in two.The Witnesses, as off-the-path as they are, are still God's people...but the Hammer is coming down on them too.
Another question. If you think JWs are chosen above all others, what are the criteria by which they have been chosen, and how is that choosing evidenced? (all right, 2 questions LOL)
I think their take on their being the reconstituted true faith is correct. Also their core (biblical) beliefs that their faith is built on I see as evidence:
I know there are religions that teach some of these, but I have not yet heard of another religion that has all of these as the foundation of their faith. I believe this is clear evidence as to having at one time had divine approval. Again though, I think they fell hard in their faith after 1914 failed to produce Armageddon. That's when, IMO, the Evil Slave took over.
thirdwitness
For the record I firmly believe the FDS has been appointed over all the master's earthly belongings.
I'm sorry to hear that, since their "fruits" are obviously rotten. Matthew 7: 15 ~ 20 and again verses 21 through 23.
Fisherman
I did not mean to be sarcastic or cynical by my comments on your post on generation.
No problem. Most of us (myself included) are prone to get defensive when our cherished beliefs are attacked.
What I meant to get across is that it is hard to abandon the hope of living in a paradise earth and never dying in ones lifetime.
Perhaps I didn't make myself as clear as I could (or maybe I'm misunderstanding you) I'm not saying that at all...I "still" believe it. I always thought the GB was in error to change the doctrine of the Last Generation.
My opinion is though, that if you do not know something for sure because God did not speak to you on it, why give people a false hope about something that is only a view and not a reality...
God did give us our thinking abilites, and I choose to use them and I regularly pray for growth in them. I don't believe we should leave what we are convinced is error unchallenged. You are doing it right now. You are using your thinking abilities and forming an agrument as to why I am wrong in voicing my beliefs and exposing what I am convinced is serious error on the part of the GB. Now, we don't agree, and we may never agree, even so, I'm glad your thinking and speaking about where you believe I'm wrong.
...and then when the generation belief did not prove to be what was expected, that is that the generation that saw 1914 is 70 or 80 years in length, using the Bible to define generation, you change the definition of generation. There is a glimer of hope there so people do not let go...
I disagree. "80 years with special mightyness" we cannot apply this literaly. If this were an 'absolute' no person would ever live beyond 80, and we know this isn't the case. People born in 1914 right now are 92, old yes, but many people live well on into their ninety's. Even people 100+ are becoming more common now.
...but at the same time, another teaching that we should not speculate on dates indication that the end can come in 50 years or at an undetermined time, but at the same tineme people are allowed to believe or to entertain the hope of in their lifetime. Is that dishonest?
The GB doen't want anyone but themselves to speculate...Only they're allowed. Its a way of controling the thinking of others...Very UN-LOVING.
Lets say your right and I'm wrong. Does that mean Jehovah isn't God? Or His promises are false? NO! Should we lose faith in the promise? Again, NO.
The reason I speak up when I have the chance is because I am completely convinced of that which I am speaking and I speak with good intentions. I am not trying to undermine anyones faith in God or His Son nor am I trying to draw anyone away to myself.
Things start crumbling apart as people start to realize that the teaching regarding the length of generation failed. The teaching is false because people normally live 70 or 80 years. If the end comes in 100 or 120 years, the teaching gave people a false hope because the average person would die and yet was taught to belief to entertain a false hope. It may make no difference to you, you are still young, so am I, but what about the older ones that worked so hard and gave up so much and when its time to get paid: Not today, And then comes another beautiful explanation of generation. The bottom line is: Not getting paid. People get angry at this, and I don't blame them.
Do you realize Jesus left His apostles knowing they were hoping for The End to come in "their lifetime." We cannot base our faith on a timetable. No matter who's right and who's wrong, whether in or out of the WTS, no one should leave Jehovah...even if we ALL grow old and die...the promise will someday come.
If I saw your view about generation on a wt mag, I would be very angry. In all honesty, how many jws can digest the new generation definition in connection with 1914?
I got angry at the GB's retraction of it...They're wrong!
I understand don’t leave the wts and stuff like that but if one has the history of telling people that they are going to get paid but time and time and half a time again, no money, some workers will stop believing you,(not God), not matter what beautiful opinions or explanations you have for not paying
Yes, and the first time Pay Day was supposed to 'arrive' was 1914. That's when Russell and his Bible Students were waiting for Armageddon to come. They waited 35 years for pay day...and then, NO MONEY. Then 81 years later the GB runs scared and changes a primary teaching of Christ's, even though the sign was, and still is, in full bloom in front of them. All I'm saying is they had it right and changed it, and stumbled many people all because the GB got scared.
And what I mean to say by not paying is, that you led people to belive that they would be rewarded, and what I mean to say by you is, not you, but the ones that led people to believe the doctrine.
I understand. I am looking forward (like you) to this system ending...and I firmly I believe it will shortly. Lets say I'm wrong though, will I, or should anyone, stop believing what God and His Son have stated and preserved in the bible? No, absolutely not. We'll need to brush ourselves off and keep waiting...even if it means seeing the New Order via the resurrection...because the Kingdom is a reality.
Now if you will please allow me to indulge in some healthy and, I think relevant speculation.
I believe the United States and England in the not to distant future will transfer authority for the War On Terror from themselves to the United Nations. This in my opinion will be the fulfillment of Revelation 13: 15, as it appears verse 12 has been being fulfilled for some time now.
The end result of this transfer I believe, will be the destuction of Babylon the Great, the Great Tribulation and Armageddon (which I think may be a 40 day event) Time will tell.
ttyl ~ Flash
