Posts by OrphanCrow

13

Bethel 'Happy Song' subliminal message

by Esse quam videri in

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OrphanCrow

Geez...so you managed to grab a screen shot that looks like a woman is about to grab a guy's groin.

You obviously don't understand what "subliminal" means.

64

The poor and deprived life of JW children.

by Esse quam videri in

i find it hard to believe that adults on this forum make such a big deal about not celebrating birthdays, x-mas, easter, halloween, etc, etc, etc.

i grew up as a jw kid and it actually made me feel good, being different from the other kids in school.

we went to meetings.

OrphanCrow

Esse quam videri:
I grew up as a JW kid and it actually made me feel good, being different from the other kids in school.

You obviously learned your JW lessons well. "I was different" translates into "I was better than them because I will live forever and they won't."

It sounds to me like you had a superiority complex, which is not unusual for young males in a patriarchal cult.

Was I an unhappy kid because I did not celebrate all those x-mas, easter, birthdays,etc, etc, etc.? No, no and again no.
If you are an adult and feel you had a deprived childhood, grow up and get over it.

Easter, Christmas and birthdays were the times that our family couldn't visit and interact with the large non-JW family that would gather on those days. I missed out on what my cousins got - the unconditional love of extended family.

Grow up and get over it? I have. I gave those things to my children so that they don't grow up with a distorted view of what family love means.

Obviously you think that you don't have to get over it - you liked the feeling of false empowerment that being a young JW male gave you. Good for you. Have you grown up enough to get over your false superiority?

34

'Clergy' and 'Ordained Ministers'

by OrphanCrow in

what i can't seem reconcile are the concepts of 'clergy' and 'ordained minister'.. the wts has consistently won legal battles, specifically in cases involving military exemption, by making the claim that each and every baptized jw is an 'ordained minister'.

and, they bolstered this label with the assertion that 'we do not have a clergy class'.

so, why is that different now in the sex abuse trials that happening right now?

OrphanCrow

Ah...never mind...open the bar and let's have a drink.

Bottom's up, Viviane. And no. I didn't respond to cappytan - he didn't start the drunk talk.

Lighten up? Sure...I will get right on that. I will post this on the jokes and humor section next time.

34

'Clergy' and 'Ordained Ministers'

by OrphanCrow in

what i can't seem reconcile are the concepts of 'clergy' and 'ordained minister'.. the wts has consistently won legal battles, specifically in cases involving military exemption, by making the claim that each and every baptized jw is an 'ordained minister'.

and, they bolstered this label with the assertion that 'we do not have a clergy class'.

so, why is that different now in the sex abuse trials that happening right now?

OrphanCrow

Thank you for your valuable input, Viviane. Your posts contributed so much information to this subject.

It is encouraging when the subject of how laws impact child abuse cases is treated respectfully. Next time you wander in drunk to a discussion, do you mind wiping up the booze off the floor before you leave the room?

Thank you.

34

Old Witnessy Pics

by snugglebunny in

jw
friends

so what have you got?.

i'll start.. 1958 aboard steamship arosa star, english and german jw's bound for new york for 8 day assembly at yankee stadium.. .

OrphanCrow

startingover: Does anyone know how these phonographs were acquired? Did they have to pay for them, or qualify is some way to receive one? I have one in my possession but my parents who I got it from are now gone so i have no one to ask.

The phonographs were, of course, purchased by the JWs themselves. I have always been curious how much they sold for but have never been able to find that information as there was one in my family. My maternal grandparents would have purchased it as poor rural farmers in rural Canada during that time - the 30s or 40s. I would imagine it would have been a hardship for them to acquire it.

It was in our basement and us kids would play with it on rainy days. I still remember the day that my grandmother was over and she and my mother hauled out all the old Rutherford books and the phonograph, and the records, and burned them in the burning barrel. That would have been in the early 60s. My mother hated the sound of Rutherford's voice.

I can close my eyes and the smell of that old phonograph and records is still there. And the scratch of the needle. And the flames coming up whooshing over the side of the barrel...throwing sparks while that old box burned and the records melted!

34

'Clergy' and 'Ordained Ministers'

by OrphanCrow in

what i can't seem reconcile are the concepts of 'clergy' and 'ordained minister'.. the wts has consistently won legal battles, specifically in cases involving military exemption, by making the claim that each and every baptized jw is an 'ordained minister'.

and, they bolstered this label with the assertion that 'we do not have a clergy class'.

so, why is that different now in the sex abuse trials that happening right now?

OrphanCrow

Thank you for that link, Datadog. That is exactly the issue I am speaking of. And Blondie, your quotes fill in some if the missing blanks concerning the Watchtower's position according to their literature.

Jwdaughter - I share your concerns.

What I am curious about, though, is if this recent ruling in California for the Conti case will effect the WTS' tax filings for the years that they claimed 'ordained minister' status. Can this judgement actually harm their previous tax filings? Would it be possible that the 20 million they were successful in appealing was a drop in the bucket compared to what the WTS would lose if they had their religious status pulled for filing false tax information?

As well, how does this change the perspective on the historical legal cases fought in the US courts, many over civil rights issues, for so many years based upon exactly that - the baptized JWs are 'ordained ministers'.

Will the Watchtower be allowed to just say..."haha! We were only kidding. They really weren't ordained...we thought you could take a joke. Haha!" Is that what will happen?

It is one thing to be flipp-flopping with doctrine to the JWs - the fluid Biblical teachings not exclusively the WTS' domain. But, it should be a different matter if the WTS thinks that they should be able to shift and twist their stance in a secular court of law.

If so, then the US courts and the American public are being duped just as much as the people trapped inside the Watchtower.

34

'Clergy' and 'Ordained Ministers'

by OrphanCrow in

what i can't seem reconcile are the concepts of 'clergy' and 'ordained minister'.. the wts has consistently won legal battles, specifically in cases involving military exemption, by making the claim that each and every baptized jw is an 'ordained minister'.

and, they bolstered this label with the assertion that 'we do not have a clergy class'.

so, why is that different now in the sex abuse trials that happening right now?

OrphanCrow

Okay...okay...I apologize profusely. I have a few more questions.

At what point did 'ordained minister' become 'baptized publisher'? How does this impact the ACLU support for the WTS in civil liberty cases where the cases were won because 'each and every baptized publisher was an 'ordained minister'? Does this change in status mean that those cases were won on misrepresentation to the courts? How valid are those earlier rulings? How valid are the changes to US law that were made previously that are now reflected in the First Amendment?

Have those laws been changed under false pretense? Why were JWs 'ordained ministers' then, but they aren't now?

Why was there a special relationship established then and not now? Who is lying? And why is the ACLU not concerned that all their work has been based upon a lie? Where does the ACLU stand in this matter?

And another thing. The WTS established their religious status way back when by adhering to requirements set down by tax law. One of the requirements was (and maybe still is) is that the religion has to maintain a training school/seminary in order for those who claimed the 'ordained status' could qualify for that status at. So, in order to maintain that status for military exemption, and qualify for religious status, the Kingdom Halls became the 'seminary' and the Kingdom Ministry School held at these halls, became 'ordained minister' training schools.

I am curious as to how far back in the tax filings of the WTS that the overlap exists - did they claim 'ordained minister' status in the civil rights courts and in their taxes at a time that they are now saying that the 'special relationship' of 'ordained minister' didn't actually exist?

34

Old Witnessy Pics

by snugglebunny in

jw
friends

so what have you got?.

i'll start.. 1958 aboard steamship arosa star, english and german jw's bound for new york for 8 day assembly at yankee stadium.. .

OrphanCrow

What would the folks in the pictures think of JW TV, assuming they didn't live long enough to see it for themselves?

Actually, neverendingjourney, I think they would have embraced the TV channel just as enthusiastically as they embraced the WTS' use of technology then.

At the very same assemblies that many of the above photographs were taken, the WTS was promoting their phonograph campaign.

And they trained the early Caleb and Sophie prototypes back then in the use of their 'ipads', too:

Not much has changed. The technology has, but the JWs themselves haven't. The Watchtower has just resurrected older proven marketing strategies.

Just replace the current ipad with the phonograph in the following quote and you will see the similarities. Back in the day it was a phonograph. Today it is the ipad.

The release of a new model of phonographs is described in the 1941 Assembly Report:

Trim and streamlined, resembling a handsome piece of luggage, the new, pebbled gray phonograph is an improved instrument for the use of His witnesses to magnify Jehovah's name and to proclaim His King and His Theocratic Kingdom. Although specially designed for doorstep setups, the vertical-type machine is equally efficient for back-calls and model studies, as proved by hundreds of conventioners who were able to secure this equipment in St. Louis.

Equipped with a lock and key, also a complete set of instructions for its operation, each one of the new lightweight models was borne triumphantly away by a witness who counted himself fortunate in acquiring the instrument and eager to put it into Theocratic use. About 300 of the machines had been taken to The Arena, and they were disposed of with a rapidity that was suggestive of the proverbial hot cakes.

It was difficult to turn them out fast enough, as each had to be assembled by experts from Society headquarters, then tested, all of which required time. They were apportioned over a period of three days and meanwhile demonstrations were carried on with a special cutaway model showing the working mechanism within. The Lord's people, after all are at heart only children; hence it was with childish interest they watched, fascinated while the demonstrator model was put through its paces, and when the sound of Judge Rutherford's voice issued therefrom as the machine was held in one's hand in an upright position, there were no bounds to their enthusiasm. In their mind's eye they could picture themselves making doorstep setups with such a handy machine.

Each machine is also equipped with a package of chromium needles of the required length that must be used each needle being recommended for 25 playings. Full instructions for operating the machine also include an explanation of how to work the volume control. the shutter may be left almost closed for use in apartment houses, while outdoors it may be opened to give full volume.

One advantage which entranced the friends was the book compartment, the upper part of which may be used to hold two books and a number of booklets while below may be carried copies of Watchtower, Consolation, Kingdom News, and additional booklets. Or, in case of getting ready to hold a model study, sufficient bound books, Bible etc., for references may be safely stowed away in the double compartment along with Model Study booklet eliminating the necessity of carrying another witnessing case. Two records - four sides - the maximum number usually desired for a model study of one hour's length may be carried on the turntable when the machine is closed.
Those who have read the instructions given with each machine value highly the detailed outline of how to arrange and carry out the doorstep setup even to the statement the witness makes in introducing the playing of the record; also advice on adjusting and care of the phonograph.

The new phonograph weighs but 8 3/4 pounds empty. One may imagine its intricate and devious workings when it is remembered that each machine contains 215 parts. The "insides" of a typical machine were displayed on a board at the phonograph counter, at St. Louis, the same being a revelation even to the mechanically-minded. Moulds, dies and tools for construction of the new model were made under the direction of the Society. Production will be continued as rapidly as possible, so that more machines may be put into the possession of witnesses as rapidly as possible.

Surely the Lord has again shown His goodness to His people by placing such an efficient instrument in their hands and they will show their gratitude by wielding it as effectively and accurately as Ehud used his dagger on fat old Eglon.

I wonder how many ipads they can boast about now?

Recorded Bible discourses had a prominent role in the witnessing work during the 1930s and early 1940s The phonographs used by Kingdom publishers themselves underwent change with the passing of time. About 1934, when this work first started, there was a strong compact model with a spring-wound motor and carrying space for several discs. With 6 discs, it weighed twenty-one pounds. When this work first started the phonograph was so heavy that the brothers kept it in their automobile or left it at a convenient place until they found people who were willing to listen to a recorded Bible discourse.

A few years later, at an assembly in Columbus. Ohio, on September 15-20. 1937, the work using the portable phonograph on the doorstep was introduced. Formerly the Witnesses had been carrying the phonograph in the service but had only played it when invited inside. Now it was played on every doorstep. The procedure was simple: After stating that he had an important Bible message. the publisher would put the needle on the record and let it do the talking.

As of 1940. more than 40,000 phonographs were being used.

24

JWs through the eyes of an eight year old

by maksutov in

my wife is a jw, and is teaching our eight year old daughter jw beliefs.

i am trying to teach her about evolution and critical thinking skills.

here is a conversation we had today (as best i can remember it):daughter: "why do bad things happen?

OrphanCrow

Mak:
@OrphanCrow: Stop it man...

Pssst....I am not a man. I pee sitting down. I know what labor pains feel like.

You make me feel like I am still working in the trades as the only woman on the construction site!

Or hanging out in one of my favorite places - a pool hall.

Lol! Give all us gals some credit here. Your daughter is one :)

*to add: it could be beneficial for your daughter to read The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, though. The Christian themes are so strong in that book that it would open up her mind to the possibilities of different interpretations of text - primarily that the text she is taught is infallible is anything but.

34

'Clergy' and 'Ordained Ministers'

by OrphanCrow in

what i can't seem reconcile are the concepts of 'clergy' and 'ordained minister'.. the wts has consistently won legal battles, specifically in cases involving military exemption, by making the claim that each and every baptized jw is an 'ordained minister'.

and, they bolstered this label with the assertion that 'we do not have a clergy class'.

so, why is that different now in the sex abuse trials that happening right now?

OrphanCrow

Somebody should make the Watchtower stand on the position they took way back in the day when they so proudly and arrogantly stood 'on their faith' and claimed 'ordained minister' status to change civil liberty laws.

If not, the Conti case stands to makes a mockery of the entire United States legal system.

I apologize for the rant. I will sit down and shut up now.

Thank you.