Posts by OrphanCrow

57

"Normal family affections and dealings" continue - If only?!?

by LHS123 in

i am new to this forum - it is only a couple of weeks since i have allowed myself to acknowledge and research my doubts.

i am trying to be fair by reading both sides of the story and considering jw official explanation of confusing matters.

one of the issues i have been looking at is shunning - and i was shocked to see the misleading information about shunning on the jw.org website: .

OrphanCrow

The marriage relationship and normal family affections and dealings continue.

There is nothing 'normal' about the Watchtower's teachings on 'family affections' or family structure to begin with.

The idea of a man being 'head of the household' and the woman being submissive is a perversion of family relationships and is doomed to fail long before the WTS sticks their nose into it and ruins it even further.

The 'family' has been perverted from the start. Disfellowshipping is only throwing more rotten apples on top of the heap of rotten apples that have already been created by the WTS.

18

Why are there so many pedophiles predators in the Watchtower Corporation?

by Brokeback Watchtower in

one reason is because the governing body's policies allow them to run loose in the congregation with their secrecy/kangaroo courts.

.

to keep jehovah's name untarnished(organization sock puppet) they have put the little rank and file member at risk.. one member of the gb was a child molester.. sexual repression also seems to aggravate the situation and make matters worse.. the governing body main concern is not children but how to keep the scam going and so if they can get the victim to shut up and not go to the police as it offers a temporary fix.. etc.....

OrphanCrow

Child abuse is rape.

The major motive for rape is power, not sex.

The Watchtower Society fosters a climate that is a perversion of power. The adherents of the JW religion have a distorted sense of their own power - on one hand, they are indoctrinated to believe that they have power over the rest of 'the world'. Yet, in actuality, they have no personal power whatsoever. Therefore, they seek out power wherever they can get it, and...children are the easiest site upon which to act out the perpetrator's need for power.

The natural vulnerability of children, combined with the isolation tactics of the cult, leads to the JW children being targeted for what JWs don't get from their 'god' (WTS) - personal power.

Child abuse is rape. Rape is an act of power, not sex.

16

Do you think you should have the right to decline business on Personal or Religious grounds?

by PokerPlayerPhil in

should individual businesses have the right to pick and chose who they serve?

if a muslim decides he won't bake the cake of a radical zionist that says "reclaim the temple in jerusalem" should the government be allowed to punish the muslim baker?

maybe you can help me understand the issues more clearly because were becoming hyper-sensitive and soon your going to need a handbook what's the proper thing to say.

OrphanCrow

Maybe someday in the future, when society has evolved beyond cave man thinking, those religious institutions that promote hatred of gays and other marginalized groups will lose their tax exemptions if their doctrines promote hatred and discrimination.

In an ideal world, a religion that bans gays and promotes misogynist behavior would no longer be able to hide under the religious banner for tax purposes.

13

Bethel 'Happy Song' subliminal message

by Esse quam videri in

.

OrphanCrow

Geez...so you managed to grab a screen shot that looks like a woman is about to grab a guy's groin.

You obviously don't understand what "subliminal" means.

64

The poor and deprived life of JW children.

by Esse quam videri in

i find it hard to believe that adults on this forum make such a big deal about not celebrating birthdays, x-mas, easter, halloween, etc, etc, etc.

i grew up as a jw kid and it actually made me feel good, being different from the other kids in school.

we went to meetings.

OrphanCrow

Esse quam videri:
I grew up as a JW kid and it actually made me feel good, being different from the other kids in school.

You obviously learned your JW lessons well. "I was different" translates into "I was better than them because I will live forever and they won't."

It sounds to me like you had a superiority complex, which is not unusual for young males in a patriarchal cult.

Was I an unhappy kid because I did not celebrate all those x-mas, easter, birthdays,etc, etc, etc.? No, no and again no.
If you are an adult and feel you had a deprived childhood, grow up and get over it.

Easter, Christmas and birthdays were the times that our family couldn't visit and interact with the large non-JW family that would gather on those days. I missed out on what my cousins got - the unconditional love of extended family.

Grow up and get over it? I have. I gave those things to my children so that they don't grow up with a distorted view of what family love means.

Obviously you think that you don't have to get over it - you liked the feeling of false empowerment that being a young JW male gave you. Good for you. Have you grown up enough to get over your false superiority?

34

'Clergy' and 'Ordained Ministers'

by OrphanCrow in

what i can't seem reconcile are the concepts of 'clergy' and 'ordained minister'.. the wts has consistently won legal battles, specifically in cases involving military exemption, by making the claim that each and every baptized jw is an 'ordained minister'.

and, they bolstered this label with the assertion that 'we do not have a clergy class'.

so, why is that different now in the sex abuse trials that happening right now?

OrphanCrow

Ah...never mind...open the bar and let's have a drink.

Bottom's up, Viviane. And no. I didn't respond to cappytan - he didn't start the drunk talk.

Lighten up? Sure...I will get right on that. I will post this on the jokes and humor section next time.

34

'Clergy' and 'Ordained Ministers'

by OrphanCrow in

what i can't seem reconcile are the concepts of 'clergy' and 'ordained minister'.. the wts has consistently won legal battles, specifically in cases involving military exemption, by making the claim that each and every baptized jw is an 'ordained minister'.

and, they bolstered this label with the assertion that 'we do not have a clergy class'.

so, why is that different now in the sex abuse trials that happening right now?

OrphanCrow

Thank you for your valuable input, Viviane. Your posts contributed so much information to this subject.

It is encouraging when the subject of how laws impact child abuse cases is treated respectfully. Next time you wander in drunk to a discussion, do you mind wiping up the booze off the floor before you leave the room?

Thank you.

34

Old Witnessy Pics

by snugglebunny in

jw
friends

so what have you got?.

i'll start.. 1958 aboard steamship arosa star, english and german jw's bound for new york for 8 day assembly at yankee stadium.. .

OrphanCrow

startingover: Does anyone know how these phonographs were acquired? Did they have to pay for them, or qualify is some way to receive one? I have one in my possession but my parents who I got it from are now gone so i have no one to ask.

The phonographs were, of course, purchased by the JWs themselves. I have always been curious how much they sold for but have never been able to find that information as there was one in my family. My maternal grandparents would have purchased it as poor rural farmers in rural Canada during that time - the 30s or 40s. I would imagine it would have been a hardship for them to acquire it.

It was in our basement and us kids would play with it on rainy days. I still remember the day that my grandmother was over and she and my mother hauled out all the old Rutherford books and the phonograph, and the records, and burned them in the burning barrel. That would have been in the early 60s. My mother hated the sound of Rutherford's voice.

I can close my eyes and the smell of that old phonograph and records is still there. And the scratch of the needle. And the flames coming up whooshing over the side of the barrel...throwing sparks while that old box burned and the records melted!

34

'Clergy' and 'Ordained Ministers'

by OrphanCrow in

what i can't seem reconcile are the concepts of 'clergy' and 'ordained minister'.. the wts has consistently won legal battles, specifically in cases involving military exemption, by making the claim that each and every baptized jw is an 'ordained minister'.

and, they bolstered this label with the assertion that 'we do not have a clergy class'.

so, why is that different now in the sex abuse trials that happening right now?

OrphanCrow

Thank you for that link, Datadog. That is exactly the issue I am speaking of. And Blondie, your quotes fill in some if the missing blanks concerning the Watchtower's position according to their literature.

Jwdaughter - I share your concerns.

What I am curious about, though, is if this recent ruling in California for the Conti case will effect the WTS' tax filings for the years that they claimed 'ordained minister' status. Can this judgement actually harm their previous tax filings? Would it be possible that the 20 million they were successful in appealing was a drop in the bucket compared to what the WTS would lose if they had their religious status pulled for filing false tax information?

As well, how does this change the perspective on the historical legal cases fought in the US courts, many over civil rights issues, for so many years based upon exactly that - the baptized JWs are 'ordained ministers'.

Will the Watchtower be allowed to just say..."haha! We were only kidding. They really weren't ordained...we thought you could take a joke. Haha!" Is that what will happen?

It is one thing to be flipp-flopping with doctrine to the JWs - the fluid Biblical teachings not exclusively the WTS' domain. But, it should be a different matter if the WTS thinks that they should be able to shift and twist their stance in a secular court of law.

If so, then the US courts and the American public are being duped just as much as the people trapped inside the Watchtower.

34

'Clergy' and 'Ordained Ministers'

by OrphanCrow in

what i can't seem reconcile are the concepts of 'clergy' and 'ordained minister'.. the wts has consistently won legal battles, specifically in cases involving military exemption, by making the claim that each and every baptized jw is an 'ordained minister'.

and, they bolstered this label with the assertion that 'we do not have a clergy class'.

so, why is that different now in the sex abuse trials that happening right now?

OrphanCrow

Okay...okay...I apologize profusely. I have a few more questions.

At what point did 'ordained minister' become 'baptized publisher'? How does this impact the ACLU support for the WTS in civil liberty cases where the cases were won because 'each and every baptized publisher was an 'ordained minister'? Does this change in status mean that those cases were won on misrepresentation to the courts? How valid are those earlier rulings? How valid are the changes to US law that were made previously that are now reflected in the First Amendment?

Have those laws been changed under false pretense? Why were JWs 'ordained ministers' then, but they aren't now?

Why was there a special relationship established then and not now? Who is lying? And why is the ACLU not concerned that all their work has been based upon a lie? Where does the ACLU stand in this matter?

And another thing. The WTS established their religious status way back when by adhering to requirements set down by tax law. One of the requirements was (and maybe still is) is that the religion has to maintain a training school/seminary in order for those who claimed the 'ordained status' could qualify for that status at. So, in order to maintain that status for military exemption, and qualify for religious status, the Kingdom Halls became the 'seminary' and the Kingdom Ministry School held at these halls, became 'ordained minister' training schools.

I am curious as to how far back in the tax filings of the WTS that the overlap exists - did they claim 'ordained minister' status in the civil rights courts and in their taxes at a time that they are now saying that the 'special relationship' of 'ordained minister' didn't actually exist?