ellderwho

Joined

• started 22 topics
• posted 1,241 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by ellderwho

• 
  396

  Who is Jesus? Is he God?

  by BelieverInJesus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i live in memphis.

  months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.

  i'm a believer in the holy bible.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  I used "attempt" because nobody can successfully take for themselves equality with God. What I'm saying is that he was already EN MORFH QEOU but in that MORFH he could either grasp for equality with God or not do it. If he did do it, it would only be an attempt, for nobody can successfully take equality with God for themselves. But he didn't do that. hUPARCWN is concessive, so although he was already in that form, he did not grasp for equality with God. He did not intend to "rape" it from God.

  More fluff, your evading the idea of the verse, Its not something to be understood/grasped.

  Why would Jesus grasping for equality be hard to understand?
• 
  396

  Who is Jesus? Is he God?

  by BelieverInJesus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i live in memphis.

  months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.

  i'm a believer in the holy bible.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  How does this help you? If God giving glory to Jesus makes Jesus God, Jesus giving glory to his disciples makes his disciples God.

  Mondo1, what your doing is evading the most simplistic forms of Jehovah giving/sharing glory with His Son. Its really obvious you cannot make the cited scriptures into what you want.

  You must reconcile them or get rid of em.

  As far as Jesus own unique "glory" you've ingnored that as well, this is what you come up with:

  Gladly. Luke 9:26 does it. You have two options.

  Luk 9:26

  For whoever becomes ashamed of me and of my words, the Son of man will be ashamed of this one when he arrives in his glory and that of the Father and of the holy angels.

  You have answer what? So how does Jesus get his own glory??
• 
  396

  Who is Jesus? Is he God?

  by BelieverInJesus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i live in memphis.

  months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.

  i'm a believer in the holy bible.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  ellderwho,

  You quote Phil. 2:6 as follows:

  Phi 2:6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,

  This is a good translation, but it says exactly the opposite of what you want. He existed EN MORFH TOU QEOU, but what did he not do? He did not attempt to hARPAGMOS (grasp for, violently attempt to sieze or rape) equality with God. You cannot do this to something you already have.

  Mondo

  You state "He did not attempt" where does the word "attempt" come from, within the text? So what your really saying is, his attempting not to be equal was not something to be grasped?
• 
  396

  Who is Jesus? Is he God?

  by BelieverInJesus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i live in memphis.

  months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.

  i'm a believer in the holy bible.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  Careful in your exegesis there my friend. It says nothing of him having "some of the Fathers glory." It speaks of Jesus having glory "alongside" the Father. The Greek word is PARA, which here simply means "with.

  Mat 16:27

  For the Son of man is destined to come in the glory l of his Father with his angels, and then he will recompense each one according to his behavior.

  Mar 8:38

  For whoever becomes ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of man will also be ashamed of him when he arrives in the glory of his Father with the holy angels."

  Joh 17:22

  Also, I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one.

  Heb 1:3

  He is the reflection of [his] glory

  and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power; and after he had made a purification for our sins he sat down on the right hand of the Majesty in lofty places.

  mondo1....They each have glory with eachother, but there isno thought of them sharing eachothers glory. It is a glory unique to each one.

  From your response, the onus, my friend is upon you to explain a seperate "glory" for Christ.

  For example, if you look up into the sky at night you see the stars, and the glory of the stars. From man's perspective on the earth, we look up and see them "with" eachother. They each have glory with eachother, but there is no thought of them sharing eachothers glory. It is a glory unique to each one.

  Same here, you arbitrarily create a scenerio unique to your own perspective without scriptual backing.

  Further, in reference to the "Savior" my response was your argument is with scripture:

  If that is the case, why did you not address my point. Here it is again for you. I said: "I would suggest you read the book of Judges, where a number of "saviors" are refered to, and properly called such. For example, Ehud was "a savior.""

  Your argument is still with scripture. Judges has nothing to do with what Jehovah directly states, as he is desribing his attributes.

  Im sure you would say the same of Isaiah 45:5. Because it directly clashes with your Jo.1:1

  Isa 45:5 I am Jehovah, and there is no one else. With the exception of me there is no God. I shall closely gird you, although you have not known me
• 
  396

  Who is Jesus? Is he God?

  by BelieverInJesus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i live in memphis.

  months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.

  i'm a believer in the holy bible.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  Does this mean that Jesus was "God" as in Jehovah? God is often used in a personal way, as a quazi proper name. Here it is not used that way,

  Phi 2:6

  who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,
• 
  396

  Who is Jesus? Is he God?

  by BelieverInJesus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i live in memphis.

  months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.

  i'm a believer in the holy bible.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  Mondo1...Finally, we might consider Jesus' words of John 8:54. "Jesus answered, If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, whom you say is your God."

  Ellderwho: Why does Jesus have glory?

  Why wouldn't he? He is our savior. Glory isn't something exclusive to God.

  Mondo

  Your response:

  First, what does the fact that God does not give **his** glory to another have to do with another receiving glory that is not God's glory?

  Lets look at what Jesus says regarding your response:

  Joh 17:5

  So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.(nwt)

  Looks like Christ is alongside the father with some of the Fathers glory.

  Second, your savior passage is entirely out of context, there contrasting God with the idol god's of the nations. You cannot remove a passage from its context and argue by that.

  I have not removed anything entirely from context. When Paul quotes the OT is he out of context because the point being made does not use the storyline or example from which it is quoted from?

  It is an abuse of Scripture. I would suggest you read the book of Judges, where a number of "saviors" are refered to, and properly called such. For example, Ehud was "a savior."

  Abuse? Your argument is with scripture not me.

  There is no issue with calling others saviors, but we recognize that God is always the source of the salvation.

  Your making your point mute. Ask yourself, who is worthy of Gods Glory?

  Little food for thought:

  Jud 1:25

  to [the] only God our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, might and authority for all past eternity and now and into all eternity. Amen.
• 
  396

  Who is Jesus? Is he God?

  by BelieverInJesus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i live in memphis.

  months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.

  i'm a believer in the holy bible.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  Glory isn't something exclusive to God.

  Isa 42:8

  "I am Jehovah. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images. (nwt)

  He is our savior

  Isa 43:11

  I-I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior." (nwt)
• 
  25

  3 Million year old pre-human found

  by monkeyshine in

  1. social
  2. current

  i don't know if anyone has posted this yet but...just in case.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  It's strange how all those ape-like "deformities" and "birth defects" happened back then.

  What always makes me wonder is how do partially evolved sex organs manage to replicate with other partially evolved conterparts? Or a partially evolved eyeball....ah nevermind.
• 
  396

  Who is Jesus? Is he God?

  by BelieverInJesus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i live in memphis.

  months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.

  i'm a believer in the holy bible.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  Mondo1...Finally, we might consider Jesus' words of John 8:54. "Jesus answered, If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, whom you say is your God."

  Why does Jesus have glory?
• 
  396

  Who is Jesus? Is he God?

  by BelieverInJesus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i live in memphis.

  months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.

  i'm a believer in the holy bible.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  Jesus is patently a lesser God than the father.

  When did this happen?