Posts by ellderwho

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

DDOG,

No necessity was laid upon God to give him more than that intermediate and even transient will, that out of man?s fall he might extract materials for his own glory.

You could have just quoted this part, it does just fine.

LT?

E.

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

It was good, thanks.

What are your thoughts on the creating of the "darkness" issue?

E.

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

Gah!!!
Now even Derek is becoming a HyperCalvinist...
... b*st*rds, the lot of 'em!!!
LOL

We're coming out of the woodwork.

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

Thanks for the link LT.

It is interesting to note that this evil that was introduced to A& E came from another created being that was also given free will,

Is God somehow caught off guard?

11

Happy 40th Birthday Ellderwho

by LittleToe in

jw
friends

it was predestined to occur, ya hyper-calvinistic ole dude.. the big 4 0 finally hit .

happy birthday!!.

and here's to many more, crossing theological swords with ya

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

Was the tree a catalyst, or were the ingredients thereof such that created a reaction in the soul of man by combination?

Comments to come.

LT, and others, you'll have to excuse me at this time, for a brief examination of my life. You see I turn 40 on Sunday.

E.--orty

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

LT: Why do you call the tree a "sin catalyst"?
Surely Adam could have just as easily broken God's law by not tending for the garden, or by not having children?
Where there is law there is responsibility to uphold it.

We have to agree Adams relationship with the Father prior to the fall was what it should have been.

My point is, not tending of the garden or filling the earth couldnt reveal "good and bad." To become "like us" knowing good and bad reveals something more.

Genesis 2:16
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

To have an "object" of knowing something, like the tree, is telling in that this "evil" was present and alive and well. And obtainable.

Did God make sin available? Why put the tree there anyway?

E.

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

I think your missing the point.

Adam could say any of that, but it would not negate his own responsibility in the matter.

Why would God have the tree in the garden to begin with? If Gods knows the outcome.

Why introduce a "sin catalyst" ?

The associated verses are only to show that God wields/commands the darkness that he created.

KJV; Psalms 104:20
Thou makest darkness, and it is night: wherein all the beasts of the forest do creep [forth].

E.

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

LT, goodmorning,

Where does scripture say he created darkness?

Psalms 104:20
You appoint darkness and it becomes night,
In which all the beasts of the forest prowl about.

Psalms 105:28
He sent darkness and made it dark;
And they did not rebel against His words.

Psalms 139:12
Even the darkness is not dark to You,
And the night is as bright as the day.
Darkness and light are alike to You.

Isaiah 45:7
The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the LORD who does all these

Jeremiah 13:16
Give glory to the LORD your God,
Before He brings darkness
And before your feet stumble
On the dusky mountains,
And while you are hoping for light
He makes it into deep darkness,
And turns it into gloom.

On the subject of the tree of good and evil;

LT: That still doesn't make him the author or creator of sin. That is the responsiblity (with it's repercussions) of the creature alone.

Could not Adam say to God "why did you put a tree in the garden that stumbled me'?

Im sure Adam and Eve had discussions like, if it wasnt for that tree, or why would the LORD allow that snake to talk to us?

E.

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

You expressed concern about "wordplay" in a previous post but, alas, that is all you really have to go on with this one. Hence we are permitted a difference of opinion. I emphasise, again, that the following is merely my position on what I understand scripture to be saying, regardless of how "certain" my comments may appear to be

Are you reffering to Ro.9:17, Is it all I have to go on, and for what point?

The only "word play" available is the injection of a point that is very weak. Question, was Paul really conveying the glorification of Gods name, or was Paul implying that Pharoah had no choice whatsoever? Hence reprobate from the start.

I am certain Pauls message conveys Gods ability to choose and mans inability to choose.

Whether or not Pharoah, Esau, etc., are ultimately of the reprobate is neither here nor there to me. I reiterate again that my only contention is that scripture doesn't state that they were predestinated such.

LT, they are predestained to reprobation by default. What other senario is their?

God foreordains all that comes to pass (including the sins of the Elect) but that doesn't make Him the author of sin nor does it mean that He predestineated everything. Predestination applies to certain specific bounds, which He set.

Then by this evil can overcome good. Because your position has God reacting to sin.

The scripture you're highlighting is Col 1:16: "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:" KJV (sidebar, This is Jesus being spoken of as the creator. - Read it and weep WTS)
I'm sorry, but I don't think this scripture has a direct bearing on the point of "sin" at all. Sure, He created all things, including power structures, devolving authority to governments and rulers, etc., but it is the creatures themselves that have abused such authority, not Him.

Your evading the question, what is inclusive of principalities and powers? On the same thought what was everything made that was made inclusive of?

Ok if its just the creatures that have abused authority where or how was such capacities attained?

No dilemma at all. At the end of the sixth day, what did God say (Gen.1:31)?
"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." KJV

IMHO "sin" entered into creation after this point.

Really? Because the tree (good and evil) was part of everything made, was it in the garden before the sixth day? And why would it be considered something very good?

No hurry on the Rom.1:28 and Gal.2:17

Ro.1:28 are you implying God was waiting for these folks to see the err of their way?

v32 although they know Gods righteous decrees that those who do such things deserve death,"

I dont see the point (little help here)

Gal2:17 I think v21 sums it up.

E.