Posts by ellderwho

19

Behind the yellow smiley face (Wal-mart)

by Sadie5 in

jw
friends

it's been a year since i started my job at wal-mart.

it has been an eye opening experience how they treat their workers.. here is one the ways they cut costs.

i was hired as a sales clerks which is the lowest paid position.

ellderwho

Anyone seen this, people actually getting married at wal-mart. =bad for America.

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

I find no scripture that supports your assertion that God predestinated the reprobate.

Romans 9:17
For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."

OK, when shown this scripture before you said " it means to glorify Gods name"

Then I pressed you futher, and you reply:

It seems to me you cannot except that Pharoah was "predestined" foreordained, whatever, to do a specific thing for God.
Oh, I can do that alright (predestinate and/or foreordain), as per my comments on Acts, to DDog.
My ONLY issue is concerning God's predestining people to reprobation.

Am I missing something here? Pharoah was in everyway a reprobate was he not? Are you afraid to entertain the thought that God designed this Pharoah for this very purpose?

How much more reprobate can one be, by Pharoahs actions? Or Judas, Esau?

Romans 9:18
So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

At what point in creation will you explain to me, does God do the hardening of the reprobate as you would have it.

Maybe I've picked you up wrong, but that appears to be the God that you are describing to me as your own.
I'm afraid that the "mercy" that is evidenced by such a God appears only to be skin deep, since it would seem there's an ulterior motive that has little to do with compassion at all.

Perhaps, Then I give you:

Romans 9:19
You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?"
20
On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?

What are the principalities and powers spoken of in Colossians? They cannot just be the good attributes that come to mind first while reading the passage.
You're wandering into other scriptures, now, but I agree with you in principle.

Well then, what are the principalities? And why would you agree in principle? (the wandering is trying to show a point)

What does "everything made that was made" include in John chapter one. Again this cannot just be the nice little things in life.
I agree. Once more, though, you attempt to put words in my mouth. I'd rather you didn't do that, thanks. But once more I also state that you need to be careful where you lay the blame for certain actions.

Sorry you feel that way.

IMHO This has nothing to do with attempting to insert words, by conclusion you end up facing a dilema, did God create the bad things too? And how far reaching is this? And your reply will be ??

E.

61

THE WEAKEST LINK---fatal flaws in Watchtower Chronology

by Terry in

watchtower chronology suffers from weak logical links.

after all, they start with an unproven premise and begin linking and linking and linking and suddenly they produce the rabbit out of the hat.

1914 is the rabbit .

ellderwho

Scholiar,

Yawn, You have nothing, no kings list that streeeeeeeeetches WT years of kings rule. Until you do, do not try to eat at this table.

E.

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

Sorry bro, are you confused?

Well lets see, some of your statments leaves me wondering what your definition is of Gods total sovereignty.

Things that are permitted rather than actively being directed

How would you know what things fall into the above catagories, being you are limited by human perceptions.

There are numerous, countless examples of God using people in scripture to do his will, while these people probably had no idea what Gods plans would result in. Much like myself. I really dont know the hardships or blessing God has in store.

Because of Gods sovereignty I realize things are set in time, everything. Begining to end. Whether its an evil occurance or a blessing.

With your reasoning (things permitted/actively directed) you have to concur that God does not have a blind spot. Thus your catagories are really one catagory.

It matters not what our preceptions are of wether something is fair or not. In this world that is full of suffering. Everything has to be by Gods design.

What are the principalities and powers spoken of in Colossians? They cannot just be the good attributes that come to mind first while reading the passage.

What does "everything made that was made" include in John chapter one. Again this cannot just be the nice little things in life.

You'd need to define "decree" for me. I agree with the statement, if you are including things which He permits

Decree=Ordain.

Did not God allow the serpent to have its way?
He permitted it, but it wasn't HIm that directed the serpent what to do.

If He permitted it then he approved of it. Because God is not set in time. Thus already knew the outcome of creating the serpent/Lucifer.

You see it cannot be both ways, God is the author of EVERYTHING. Its a small camp to be in, I realize this, however in the end its Gods world not mine.

E.

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

DDog:Paul argues that the "vessels of wrath" have no argument, because God has the right to make them as He will, if He so desires.
He doesn't ever state that God made them that way, though.

I feel a bit of confusion in the air.

Paul confirms we are all under sin.
That one sin was condemnation for all men.
God demonstrates his love while we were still sinners.

Because God digs into the same lousy lump of clay to make pots of mercy, reveals we are all on our way to destruction. God is the author of everything. How could something exist or have a chance of existing without Gods foreknowledge, sin, principalities, powers, thrones, its all him. How could it not be?

IMHO anything less puts God in a box.

LT,

The question is, is it His active or passive will, when folks sin?

Does not God do things just because?

What is passive will? Is that kinda like being "passive aggressive"

God's lack of interferance, concerning misery and evil, is something I can't get my head around.

Im sure the generations of Jews that were inslaved by Egypt felt the same way.

Its for Gods glory. Anything less is God in a box.

You're the first person I've met who wanted to argue that God was the author of sin (but maybe you have company with EW ).

Im with brother Dog. God decrees everything. Yes sin too.

Man got his original nature from God, but it was man that distorted it.

Did not God allow the serpent to have its way? Or did the snake catch everyone by surprise?

Michelle,

I suspect this chewing on solid food may seem a bit argumentive, I assure you it is not. Like LT says "the devils in the details."

E.

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

EW:Are you insinuating that the tree was the author?
Further, define "perfect".

No. I believe we should examine the tree, and who might have designed it to hold good and evil that obiviously was present prior to the fall.

Along with the thought, God already knew Adam would eat. Thus created with sin. (before the founding of the world)

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

Sin simply put, means breaking God's law.

Agreed, and what was the first Law. And was it able to be kept?

LT, was Adam created perfect?

E.

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

Biblically speaking God "permitted" it and "the serpent" contributed to the process, but it was man who sinned, and hence was the author of his own downfall (IMHO).

What was the name of that tree in the garden?

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

No, I don't think He's the author of sin in any shape or form.

Then who is?

Can we handle another rabbit hole?

And good morning LT.

E.

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

I don't see how your contextualisation leads to ultimate destiny. He doesn't mention the Red Sea, nor Esau's final end. His comments are totally in connection with God's glorification, mercy and compassion.

All of Chapter 9 excluding v17 say nothing about glorifying Gods name. We're talking about Gods sovereign choice.

Even v18 begins with the word "therefore", or better said "for that reason; accordingly; consequently

The above wording of v18 begins with the adverb, "therefore" which does not indicate the reason of, it means by reason of. OR accordingly or conseqently.

Ultimate destiny is explained in Pharoahs case nothing more nothing less. The same with Esau.

LT: Hence, you appear to be focussing on a single verse, out of context with the flow.

I'm focussing on a single verse?

The mention of Pharoah is to highlight God's name being glorified through Pharoah. By His express will in this specific instance, God's people were released and saved (Exodus).

You put v18 out of context. Not me.

It seems to me you cannot except that Pharoah was "predestined" foreordained, whatever, to do a specific thing for God.

He doesn't mention the Red Sea, nor Esau's final end.

He doesnt have to.

E.