in this series i hope to discuss some common verses used by the watchtower to "disprove" the trinity and deity of the lord jesus christ.
the first one is 1 corinthians 8:6: .
"but to us there is but one god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one lord jesus christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Herk,
If a person is seeking the "truth" he's seeking the truth.
If a fallable human claims to have it "all figured out" he is setting himself "up."
Absolute truths, the earth is round, I see my hand in front of my face.
If man or a Org. claims to have the absolute "Biblical" truth no questions asked attitude. I see that as self-proclaiming exculsiveness.
In essence Im leary of people who say they have it all figured out.
ellderwho
in this series i hope to discuss some common verses used by the watchtower to "disprove" the trinity and deity of the lord jesus christ.
the first one is 1 corinthians 8:6: .
"but to us there is but one god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one lord jesus christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Herk,
I think it's stretching things to suggest that seeking the absolute truth of a matter reminds a person of a cult.
How do you get that from what I've stated.
ellderwho
in this series i hope to discuss some common verses used by the watchtower to "disprove" the trinity and deity of the lord jesus christ.
the first one is 1 corinthians 8:6: .
"but to us there is but one god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one lord jesus christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Herk,
I never addressed this from JC
, "we shouldn't take things expressed out of context of what they mean."
I mean not to pit you against JC, though its strange to use this idealogy of contextual interpetation when the example you give of JCs "in context" conflicts with your take on the verse.
My apologies,
ellderwho
in this series i hope to discuss some common verses used by the watchtower to "disprove" the trinity and deity of the lord jesus christ.
the first one is 1 corinthians 8:6: .
"but to us there is but one god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one lord jesus christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Herk maybe you and I are a example of whats been going on in the christian faith for thousands of years. The original churches were debating from the onset. Why are we so different?
I believe when "one" claims to have it all figured out, kinda reminds me of the cult I was raised in. They having all the answers and not to be questioned.
So to clash on doctrine can be viewed as growth if one of us walks away with perhaps a another perspective to look at. Not whose got the better arguement.
If there was a true and undeniable teaching that was not subject to all the variables of time and translations and interpetations you and I would not be talking.
ellderwho
in this series i hope to discuss some common verses used by the watchtower to "disprove" the trinity and deity of the lord jesus christ.
the first one is 1 corinthians 8:6: .
"but to us there is but one god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one lord jesus christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Herk,
I believe you and I are far away on the subject of the deity.However, I enjoyed debating with you, Im sure will clash on other subjects as well. That, I believe is healthy.
ellderwho
in this series i hope to discuss some common verses used by the watchtower to "disprove" the trinity and deity of the lord jesus christ.
the first one is 1 corinthians 8:6: .
"but to us there is but one god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one lord jesus christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Herk,
I think that now we're starting to ramble. Unless we agree on certain facts, I see no point in pursuing this topic. I've made some points and raised some questions, using bold-face type and setting them off in red, yet you keep moving on as though I never mentioned them. What gives?
I agree, with the rambling part. Yes you had made points, So have I. I answer you on Pauls statement the inablitiy to grasp something what is so hard to understand I can not grasp it.
Herk, show me Christs' beginning. Dont go to Proverbs. What does the hebrew word everlasting mean?
What about worshipping Christ you have said nothing.
Who's the alpha and omega?
have glory with God does not mean to have the same glory as God
Ok separate the glory given to the Lamb on the throne, you've said nothing about this.
yet you keep moving on as though I never mentioned them
Why are the elders in Heaven giving glory to the Lamb?
What about the refrence you give from Jc. No reply
I ask you what are we to do with the LOGOS? no reply
What gives?ellderwho
in this series i hope to discuss some common verses used by the watchtower to "disprove" the trinity and deity of the lord jesus christ.
the first one is 1 corinthians 8:6: .
"but to us there is but one god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one lord jesus christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
how should we view those comparatively few that seem to support it? Should we attribute more force to those few and ignore the majority? I am sincerely interested in what your answer to that question would be.
Herk,
My answer is simply what Paul states "its not something to grasp"
I can not explain the mystery of God. I can not grasp the idea or thought of a trinity.
John 1:1 is as you state"is controversial." With that said, what to do with the LOGOS. Should we honor it, just as the father, worship it, look to it as salvation, see that it can forgive sin, see that it returns with the inscription on its thigh "King of Kings and Lord of Lords, See that it is the exact representation of God, see that all fullness of the deity dwells in it in fleshly form, see that it is from everlasting, If what is true in Rev 5:12 He is worthy of Honor, glory, praise, riches "to him that sit on the throne and to the Lamb" v14 'and they fell down and worshiped."
Is the Lamb co-ruler because its in the midst of the throne, or is at the right hand as a co-ruler?
I dont know how you view John 1:1. I believe if God is NOT the LOGOS then somehow you wind up with a created deity.
If Yahweh looks in a mirror does he not see his LOGOS?
ellerwho
in this series i hope to discuss some common verses used by the watchtower to "disprove" the trinity and deity of the lord jesus christ.
the first one is 1 corinthians 8:6: .
"but to us there is but one god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one lord jesus christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Herk,
Help me out here Im confused.
You state:
Does Colossians 1:16 prove that Jesus is the Creator of the universe? As JCanon expressed it above, "we shouldn't take things expressed out of context of what they mean." So, what is the context of this verse? Is Paul writing about the Genesis creation--the creation of rivers, mountains, animals, birds, etc.? No. Paul is writing about "the new creation."
But Jc says:
Thus in the case of the heavens and earth, God is taking credit for HIS creative work and design, though Christ was there to execute the details. Because God was the original conceptualist, he can properly claim the work as his own and solely his own.
Herk,
So you say Paul wasnt talking about the present heaven and earth(Genesis) only to a future, but elude to JC example of Jesus doing the work that you disagree with Jesus doing at all.
ellderwho
in this series i hope to discuss some common verses used by the watchtower to "disprove" the trinity and deity of the lord jesus christ.
the first one is 1 corinthians 8:6: .
"but to us there is but one god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one lord jesus christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Herk,
Do you really believe that Philippians 2:6 teaches that Jesus is equal to God?
Yes I do.
Phil.2:6 NASB who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to grasp .
Your right Herk, sounds better in the NAS. Still what is Pauls message? "Grasping" the idea of equality which somehow you are able to do.
Micah 5:2 does not prove that Jesus was without a beginning
Why not, if Christ is from everlasting.
Who is the rock of Israel Duet. 32:1-4 ________?
What did people do to the Rock YHWH? Duet 32:15-18__________.
According to 1Cor.10:1-4, who was the Rock of Israel(YHWH) reffered to in the OT.?________.
Herk,
Did the Father share His glory with the Son? John 17:5
Would the Father share His glory with a created being? Isaiah 42:8
ellderwho
in this series i hope to discuss some common verses used by the watchtower to "disprove" the trinity and deity of the lord jesus christ.
the first one is 1 corinthians 8:6: .
"but to us there is but one god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one lord jesus christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Herk,
I concur in part.
I have a problem understanding verses that intrinsically tie Jesus to the Father.
Micah 5:2 to Psalm 90:2
John the Baptist is to prepare the way for the coming of the ______; Isa 40:3,10; Matt 3:1-3; Luke 1:76
The angel announces to Mary that the child will be called "Immanuel" [God with us.]Matt 1:23
When the beginning began, was the Word already in existence? Jn1:1
Who is creator of the universe; Jn 1:3; Col 1:16,17; Heb. 1:10-12,2:10
But in Issaih 44:24 "I am the LORD, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who stretched out the earth by myself."
What am I to do with these verses?
ellderwho
