ellderwho

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Posts by ellderwho

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  133

  Troublesome Trinity Verses Part 1

  by hooberus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in this series i hope to discuss some common verses used by the watchtower to "disprove" the trinity and deity of the lord jesus christ.

  the first one is 1 corinthians 8:6: .

  "but to us there is but one god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one lord jesus christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

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  ellderwho

  Herk,

  I certainly do not want a Trinity debate for I do not understand the trinity.

  Exactly how many times does Paul have to testify to the fact that Jesus is not Almighty God before he is actually believed?

  Phillippians 2:6 Pauls says"who, being in very nature God , did not consider equality with God something to be grasped.

  I guess he is talking to me.

  Paul did not claim that Jesus is God, that Jesus is eternal or that Jesus is the Creator.

  I thought Paul said in Col 1:16 "for by him all things were created"

  and someone who is begotten comes into existence as a living creature after he is begotten.

  Pauls says in v17 "He is before all things"

  If Jesus created all things when was he created?

  ellderwho
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  133

  Troublesome Trinity Verses Part 1

  by hooberus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in this series i hope to discuss some common verses used by the watchtower to "disprove" the trinity and deity of the lord jesus christ.

  the first one is 1 corinthians 8:6: .

  "but to us there is but one god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one lord jesus christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

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  2. 
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  ellderwho

  Herk,

  But the Jews of Jesus' day did know their God, and they did not know him as a Trinity!

  Do you think Paul the Jew knew what the impact of refering to Jesus as the KURIOS meant?

  In 1Cor12:3 as well as 1thes4:15,16 Here Pauls uses the word(KURIOS) to identify in v15 the Lord, the NWT calls him Jehovah then in v16 they(the NWT) leave Pauls word as KURIOS or Lord [the one descending from heaven] to complete the theology.

  You start to realize that the translation of the NWT is adjusted to fit their doctrine. There are many more examples of this kind of work.

  The only reason I bring this up is because if the NWT held to true form it would a least transliterated God (theos) as Jehovah. ie "Jehovahs" trumpet 1thes 4:16.
• 
  133

  Troublesome Trinity Verses Part 1

  by hooberus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in this series i hope to discuss some common verses used by the watchtower to "disprove" the trinity and deity of the lord jesus christ.

  the first one is 1 corinthians 8:6: .

  "but to us there is but one god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one lord jesus christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  ellderwho

  Dean,

  The terms Lord and God can be applied to many individuals and they are in the bible to the Father and the Christ AND ALSO to men. Paul is not saying that only the Christ can be called Lord as the term Lord was even used in Bible times as a simple form of address like we would address a person as Sir or Lord ( like a Judge or Minister ).

  The crux of the question is the Holy Spirit enables a believer to declare Jesus is LORD or KURIOS. Thus, why would we need the Holy Spirit to declare Jesus as something less(sir) than the KURIOS? I believe thats what Paul is indicatating at 1Cor.12:4

  ellderwho
• 
  133

  Troublesome Trinity Verses Part 1

  by hooberus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in this series i hope to discuss some common verses used by the watchtower to "disprove" the trinity and deity of the lord jesus christ.

  the first one is 1 corinthians 8:6: .

  "but to us there is but one god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one lord jesus christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  ellderwho

  Dean,

  why would one need the Holy Spirit to declare Jesus is sir?

  ellderwho
• 
  133

  Troublesome Trinity Verses Part 1

  by hooberus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in this series i hope to discuss some common verses used by the watchtower to "disprove" the trinity and deity of the lord jesus christ.

  the first one is 1 corinthians 8:6: .

  "but to us there is but one god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one lord jesus christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  Dean Porter,

  You make an interesting point,

  Christ can be called Lord as the term Lord was even used in Bible times as a simple form of address like we would address a person as Sir or Lord

  1Cor. 12:3 .....' nobody cay say: "Jesus is Lord!" except by the Holy Spirit. NWT

  Or that Jesus is the "KURIOS."

  ellderwho
• 
  143

  The Gospel

  by UnDisfellowshipped in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:

  plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures

  if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].

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  ellderwho

  Good one deputy!

  Elldah
• 
  143

  The Gospel

  by UnDisfellowshipped in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:

  plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures

  if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  Gum,

  What's circular reasoning have to do with what I told shelby? Explain

  The answer!
• 
  143

  The Gospel

  by UnDisfellowshipped in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:

  plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures

  if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  Gumb,

  LOL Im thinking of a few pages ago debating with Shel. Circular reasoning, is all you will wind up with.

  I myself will try in the future to not get sucked into this "circular wt reasoning"

  elldah
• 
  133

  Troublesome Trinity Verses Part 1

  by hooberus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in this series i hope to discuss some common verses used by the watchtower to "disprove" the trinity and deity of the lord jesus christ.

  the first one is 1 corinthians 8:6: .

  "but to us there is but one god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one lord jesus christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  Hooberus,

  I have not shown the elder I study with this one yet:

  Gen 19:24 NWT --Then Jehovah made it rain sulphur and fire from Jehovah from the heavens.

  Or look at the many theophanies(seen God) in the OT. If you can not look upon Yahweh who were they or what were they beholding?

  Just a thought

  ellderwho
• 
  143

  The Gospel

  by UnDisfellowshipped in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:

  plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures

  if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  Gumb,

  Your becoming guilty of what you told me not to do. Circular reasoning is not my forte.

  However, Ive heard circular reasoning and observed the parties involved making perfect sense to one another.

  Bottom line, who is acknowleged as having "authority." As well as being under it.

  ellderwho