Posts by ellderwho

143

The Gospel

by UnDisfellowshipped in

the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:

plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures

if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].

ellderwho

Little toe,

You state

Long posts with scripture tossed to and fro, interests few. If you can keep it pithy it'll hold more interest.
If you have to, distill what you reply to, to keep it tight. It'll make you more readable - it's worth the effort.

My posts' pale in comparison to Shels.

It colours our perception of what the written word contains.

Little,

I present what the scriptures says. Ive spent more time explaining what I said, and a scriptual Bible position to Shel than seems necessary, verses what she interpets it to mean. That is what truley becomes frustrating, Not only do I give biblical positioning for different subjects, then I have to go back through it all to discifer if she is really getting the point. ie." the tree of life" I spent, it seemed two days just trying to get the point across of the location of the tree. Nothing more. Not what it stood for or meant to whoever for whatever., it seemed impossible to reason this out.

ellderwho

143

The Gospel

by UnDisfellowshipped in

the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:

plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures

if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].

ellderwho

Little t,

I aprreciate your constructive insight to my responses to Shel. Holding to a non clavinist point is quite alright with me. The other point would be as Deputy Dog weighed in about the other person your talking with holds the scriptures as inerrant. Little toe, it is difficult to debate theology when both parties do not hold to scripture as authority.

ellderwho

143

The Gospel

by UnDisfellowshipped in

the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:

plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures

if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].

ellderwho

Undis,

John 6:44, where Jesus said: "No one can come to Me unless the Father draws Him".
That means absolutely no human will come to Jesus on his own, unless God has chosen him already.
Also, the Verses in Revelation which show that the names of the saints were written in the Scroll of Life before the founding of the world.

Paul being the apostle to the Gentiles refers to Israel experiencing a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. I believe what the bible teaches is that it is not our nature to even want to come to God. We will hide in the darkness just like Adam because of our shame and will blame others for our mistakes. On a light note referring to Rev./book of life. Do you think God has a giant eraser, to maybe correct an errant entry into the book of life he filled out before the founding of the world ? ellderwho?

143

The Gospel

by UnDisfellowshipped in

the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:

plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures

if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].

ellderwho

Dearest Aguest,

Dear one, I have also given you this "truth" - that if we draw close to the Father,

I have NOT said that YOU said it this way. Rather, I have spoken the TRUTH to you... which even THE BIBLE says: that if you… draw close to God... He... will draw close to YOU. But it seems to me that you are confused, for you next say:

At this point I have quoted scripture to reinforce what the bible teaches. Ive given over 30 plus verses through successive books of the bible. Romans to 2Tim. Withholding John and other verses outside the given parameters that solidify the fact that God makes the first move.

You state:

God WANTS to draw us to Christ, dear Ellderwho

True, God must draw you to Christ..

Does it not say that if we draw close to God, He will draw close to us…

I am speaking… us to GOD… and as a result, THEN us… to Christ

which even THE BIBLE says: that if you… draw close to God... He... will draw close to YOU. But it seems to me that you are confused,

draw close… to Christ.” But… it does not. It means what it says: draw close… to God. But then, you might have a bit of difficulty

... by means of drawing YOU… to Christ. For that truly is what takes place: you draw close to God..

you draw close to God... and He draws you to Christ so that Christ... can lead you TO Him (God). YOU... can only get so far

. And it is upon YOU... to do so. Once you DO... God draws you BACK... to Himself... by drawing you TO Christ... whom you at one time turned away FROM... and left behind

.

But... it is YOUR choice... to turn around. True, God must draw you to Christ... but YOU... must turn around so that He will do so.

YOU... turn around... or draw close... to God.

Finally,

Perhaps THIS time, I was able to help you out in that respect, understanding my beliefs. I thank you for patience

Romans 9:16 It does not depend on man's desire or effort but on Gods mercy.

19 One of YOU

will say to me:"Then why does God still blame us? For who resist his will? 20 But who are you O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him that formed it, 'why did you make me like this?'

Isaiah 65:1 'I was found by those who did not seek me;

I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me."

Gods answer to Elijah Ro. 11:4b 'I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal," 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant choosen by grace. 6 And if by grace it is no longer by works, if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

7 What then? What Israel so ernestly sought it did not obtain, but the elect did, The others were hardened...

The Bible is not MY teacher, dear Ellderwho,

I leave you in peace

ellderwho

143

The Gospel

by UnDisfellowshipped in

the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:

plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures

if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].

ellderwho

Aguest,

How do you react to this:

"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace."

Would you agree this is Jesus?

Im trying to understand your beliefs.

ellderwho?

143

The Gospel

by UnDisfellowshipped in

the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:

plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures

if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].

ellderwho

Dearest Aguest,

You say:

Dear one, I have also given you this "truth" - that if we draw close to the Father, He... will draw close to us... by drawing us TO the Christ. I have not disputed this "truth" one bit.

Also, John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.

Again, I absolutely agree: draw close to God... and He... will draw close to YOU... by means of drawing YOU... to Christ. I have spoken such truth to you. But it is WE... who must "draw close"... first.

You keep twisting the drawing to the father, on one hand you disagree with scripture, thus:

, I have also given you this "truth, that if we draw close to the Father

I have never said or implied -------- "that if we draw close to the father"

By you saying "I have also given you this truth" you are stating that I in fact said this to you, again I have never said to you "that if we draw close to the father"

Why do you keep saying I said it in this way:

Again, I absolutely agree: draw close to God... and He... will draw close to YOU...

What are you agreeing with? I never said that!

I show you scriptures that expound the fact of the Father drawing us to Jesus, and you say you agree with it, and then state the exact opposite:

But it is WE... who must "draw close"... first. "I have not disputed this "truth" one bit."

Why is it you cannot let go and stay out of the drawing that scripture is showing you?

You continue in your thinking by trying to have a hand in the drawing.

You say

But the word of my Lord is that you have NOT looked up what I have quoted to you… nor have you responded to anything that I have brought up to support what I have shared with you.

Aguest,

You gave about four verses that in no way show choice, a few pages ago. I refuted your example of the christians that were baptised in repentance, but not saved. But Appolo did not know of the the ressurection of Christ. So how could he teach it or give it. But you claim the christians were drawing themselves to God. I rebutted your positioin due to the fact that the didnt even know about a salvation to begin with. I continued to ask you what were they praying for? And you couldnt answer.

The problem you seem to be avoiding is the inablitity of yourself to refute what I have showed you the bible teaches.

Furthermore, why wont you develope your position from what the bible teaches, as I have asked for your help in doing so, that I can better understand your position.

I give you scripture on election, then you say "I absolutely agree with the example given" with that statement of concurance. then you reply with opposite statement.Im confused by your reasoning.

Dearest Aguest,

I feel like I'm in a round room with you, and I'm trying to show you what the bible teaches and that its in the corner of the room.

Its ironic you mention this:

A couple of years ago I heard someone filled with holy spirit speak in this tongue, literally. I had never heard it spoken out loud... and she did not know what the translation was. As she spoke, however, it was if my ears were "opened"... and I understood everything she said. I was shocked; she was not. Not only had I never translated a tongue...

A women sitting behind me in church(visiting I assume) Sunday told me this same thing, that "she was at a church and heard someone speaking a Aramaic tongue a recongnized it" and she knew right away something was different about it, she began to tell me how she cured her son of "autism" and that night she was going to an exorcism in North New Jersey. Well all this set me back alittle because I was very un familiar with this sorta of thing.

Ive never heard someone "speak in tongues" or the interpretation of that tongue that was spoken.

Was it prophesy this woman was speaking to you? Did this" speaking in tongue" up build a church or a non-believer, If there was not an interpreter did she keep quiet? Where you in church at the time?

Do presently " speak in tongue"

and is it prophesy, does it up build your church,. Do you feel that speaking in tongues is a sign of salvation?

Thankyou in advance

ellderwho

143

The Gospel

by UnDisfellowshipped in

the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:

plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures

if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].

ellderwho

Grumpy, er' gumby

Spiritual Apostates such as the likes of you elderman and myself.

Did'nt you say:

"Gee... didnt anybody read my stuff"

A few pages ago?

lol; ellderwho

143

The Gospel

by UnDisfellowshipped in

the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:

plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures

if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].

ellderwho

undisfellow

Romans 2:1-10 appears to be saying that God is trying to lead people to repentance but some people refuse to repent, so they are storing up wrath for themselves at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

What makes you think that God is trying to do something and man is not letting him. Gods judgement is just and true and deserved, believer or non-believer.

Futhermore, where is choice addressed.

ellderwho

143

The Gospel

by UnDisfellowshipped in

the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:

plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures

if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].

ellderwho

Aguest,

and still tell those with ears to hear about the good news of the Christ

By that statement, which really relates to your theology, the question is, Do you believe that the spreading of the gospel, and humans receiving it would somehow rely upon yourself?

You say this, I assume your pettioning Jesus; [Lord] vs [LORD]

"I asked my Lord"

He: "No. I gave you such faith because it was what you ASKED for. You did not ask me for riches. You did not ask me for creative talents. You did not ask me for recognition and fame. You asked for me... to know me... to have faith in me... and so the Father sent me to you. You know this."

I give you John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me, I will never drive away.

Also, John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.

John 6:65 He[Jesus] went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

But you have it that it is you who ask the Father to send Jesus to yourself. Which is kinda backwards .

You state:

However... I cannot follow you. Truly. It sounded good, quite good, actually... but... it is not my Lord's voice,

I certainly am NOT trying to destroy your thinking. I am simply showing you what the bible teaches.

listening to earthling man and their adherence to the Bible... has enslaved me more than I care to admit

I would'nt want anyone to follow me or my thinking. It is the Logos /written word you should feed off of.

Ive never made my line of thinking mandatory as an example to go by. Ive always used scripture which you seem to either not want to trust in its entirety or just the prophets and Psalms.

Why do you think I keep stating "your arguement is not with me, but what I expound to you from the scriptures." Its that, plain and simple.

I leave you in peace,

ellderwho

143

The Gospel

by UnDisfellowshipped in

the gospel of salvation -- the good news of jesus christ:

plain and simple, according to the holy scriptures

if you have any questions or comments, please e-mail me at [email protected].

ellderwho

Little toe,

It really comes down to what does the Bible teach. Throughout scripture. Billy Graham said this "both Calvin and Arminian are DEAD" So, I like to side with what scripture teaches.

Or a quote from Dr. J. Boice " If we can choose God, ultimately then, we will unchoose God, because it is not in our nature."

And think about it, even when God chooses, will still have this struggle always putting extra unneeded presure on ourselves to somehow perform for God. Its really amazing, we will always try to involve ourselves in what God has already planned out. You know maybe God saw that halfway decent good deed I just did.

ellderwho