i live in memphis.
months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.
i'm a believer in the holy bible.
The shema dclares the oneness of God and it was unthinkable for ancient Jews to equate the true God with any other living entity. The concept of the Messiah was also known by the ancient Jews.
Joh 10:33
The Jews answered him, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
i live in memphis.
months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.
i'm a believer in the holy bible.
Bible does not provide a specific definition,
Your entire argument rests on this very assumption. Re: Christ glory. Whats puzzling is your ability to carry on as if you have an argument that defends your assumptions.
Do you have a point anymore?
I clearly asked where did this glory Christ has come from. You've done nothing but dance around the issue and bring other points in that cloud the issue.
i live in memphis.
months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.
i'm a believer in the holy bible.
I did not backpeddle at all. I simply said that the Bible does not provide a specific definition, but that we can look a get a general idea.
Keep tellin yourself that.
Bible does not provide a specific definition,
But you can?
we can look
Who's we? You mean you can look.
i live in memphis.
months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.
i'm a believer in the holy bible.
You know full well that the Bible does not specifically define for us how this takes place.
Your back peddling because you got caught. Remember you said:
For how Jesus gets his own glory, it is in a way similar to how the angels do I would imagine,
"In a way similar" eh, boy thats real original. And you would imagine?
And you have the nerve to ask me, "is this the best Ive got". And call me 100% transparent. You keep on imagining things it will work out, I guess.
Like I said, you know Christ has glory on the throne but just cant figure out how he got it. Or maybe I figured it out for you "you imagined it"
These are your words not mine.
i live in memphis.
months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.
i'm a believer in the holy bible.
In the non-trinitarian view (arian or jw), the person interpreting the Bible would have to interpret all the passages in which Jesus is called, or refers to himself in God-terms, as pasages in which the term "God" is used as just a title, in the same manner as a "lord" or "prophet".
Hellrider,
You make a good point. Ive yet to see a valid explanation of the complex problem of having yet another [g]od. Besides the one true God.
i live in memphis.
months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.
i'm a believer in the holy bible.
For how Jesus gets his own glory, it is in a way similar to how the angels do I would imagine,
My apologies, Ive overlooked this post. So really you have no basis other than your own imagination of Christs' own glory.
but on a much greater scale. Jesus is raised by God to a high position, so that all will recognize who he is and what he has done and in such a way he is glorified.
You seem to realize Christ has this glory but unsure of its particular origination, although you agree it comes from Jehovah you dont want it to be Jehovahs own glory. Even though Jehovah creates everything, or do you have a problem with that?
Reply: You are highlighting a claim, but in doing so you are ripping it out of context to make it *seem* to be saying something it does not. You have shown no "sharing" of glory, you have shown a possession of glory. Big difference. No thought of "share" is in any of the verses you quoted.
So your the one to explain what Jehovah really means when he says " I will share my glory with no one"
Further your saying, I am trying to make it *seem* its saying something its not. Seem? Oh I see, maybe Jehovah meant I wont share my glory in the Old Testament, but in the New Testament, I'll spread it around alittle between Christ and the angels. But lets not reveal where you got it.
By your textual logic of Isaiah 45 we really have to ignore how the text reveals Gods attributes. Or maybe you have a problem with Jehovah stating he's the only true God. Or maybe a textual problem with 45:18 where Gods claims to have created the earth and all its inhabitants, maybe another textual issue with verse 23 that it doesnt really mean all the ends of the earth should look to "him" to be saved.
i live in memphis.
months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.
i'm a believer in the holy bible.
Ellderwho,----------------------
More fluff, your evading the idea of the verse, Its not something to be understood/grasped.Why would Jesus grasping for equality be hard to understand?
---------------------Dismissal is how you respond to refutation, eh? The text says he did NOT grasp for equality. It says OUC hARPAGMON, not just hARPAGMON.
Mondo
Geesh! This is borderline halarious. The verse actually says equality with God was not to be understood.
G2470 equal
??´s??
isos
ee'-sos
Probably from G1492 (through the idea of seeming); similar (in amount or kind): - + agree, as much, equal, like.
Phi 2:6
who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, ASVPhi 2:6
Who, 3739 being 5225 in 1722 the form 3444 of God, 2316 thought 2233 it not 3756 robbery 725 to be 1511 equal 2470 with God: 2316 kj+Phi 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: webstersPhi 2:6
who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal to God, YLTThought it not robbery. Hmmmm.
i live in memphis.
months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.
i'm a believer in the holy bible.
for you are unable to come back with any type of reply other than to deny I addressed your point.
Again Mondo1, I very simply highlight a claim that Jehovah makes. Kinda like thus saith the LORD. You say I take it out of context. I show verses the clearly denote glory and the origination of and a sharing of glory with his Son, which Jehovah clearly prohibits.
As you are unable to show where I did not address it,
What? I give you verses that show God gave his glory, what more do you need?
You wrote
Careful in your exegesis there my friend. It says nothing of him having "some of the Fathers glory."
Are you then denying the scriptures cited. What now?
i live in memphis.
months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.
i'm a believer in the holy bible.
Dismissal is how you respond to refutation, eh? The text says he did NOT grasp for equality. It says OUC hARPAGMON, not just hARPAGMON.Mondo
Yeah I dismissed them. I thoiught you had a little more in the arsenal then this.
i live in memphis.
months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.
i'm a believer in the holy bible.
How does this help you? If God giving glory to Jesus makes Jesus God, Jesus giving glory to his disciples makes his disciples God.
C'mon Mondo strawman come to mind.
You kmow exactly waht the cited verses state now deal with them.
