ellderwho

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Posts by ellderwho

• 
  234

  Intelligent Design

  by Delta20 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hey all,.

  i am currently studying the topic of intelligent design (id).

  basically the id theory is the revival of the teleological argument for the existance of a deity.

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  ellderwho

  Alan F:Ellderwho, you are the one who brought up the subject, so it's your problem to define your terms.

  I did? Logic was brought up on pg. 4 or 5.

  How about universal standards of rationality. Or do you have a problem with that?
• 
  234

  Intelligent Design

  by Delta20 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hey all,.

  i am currently studying the topic of intelligent design (id).

  basically the id theory is the revival of the teleological argument for the existance of a deity.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  Alan F,

  :I think that you can't be specific because you haven't the slightest idea what "the laws of logic" are.

  And you are?

  :The "laws of logic" -- whatever they happen to be....."

  :Your statement is not even correct.

  About logic being a conceptual reality? Logic has to reside in the mind, its a description of truth.
• 
  234

  Intelligent Design

  by Delta20 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hey all,.

  i am currently studying the topic of intelligent design (id).

  basically the id theory is the revival of the teleological argument for the existance of a deity.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  This is an extremely stupid question, akin to asking, 'How would you account for the laws of arithmetic, such as the fact that 1 + 1 makes 2?' Or, 'How would you account for the fact that God cannot make an object so heavy that he cannot lift it?'

  My position attributes the laws of Logic to God, I would like to understand how an atheist comes to a world of logic from a world of chances.

  :The "laws of logic" -- whatever they happen to be -- are going to make sense in any possible universe, because by definition, anything that doesn't make sense is not "logical".

  I feel they would make sense anywhere because they are absolute truth. If logic is not absolute, then no logical arguments for or against the existence of God can be made.

  :Ellderwho, you haven't even managed to state what you think "the laws of logic" are.

  See above

  :You seem to be the sort of Christian apologist -- a type I've seen countless times before on the Net -- who throws out vague, fuzzy notions

  Your right I was vague and fuzzy in my questioning the atheist about the origin of logic rather than why logic is in place.

  :Now, if you really want to have a discussion on the origin of "the laws of logic", then state those laws clearly.

  I believe the laws of logic are conceptual realities.
• 
  234

  Intelligent Design

  by Delta20 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hey all,.

  i am currently studying the topic of intelligent design (id).

  basically the id theory is the revival of the teleological argument for the existance of a deity.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  Funky Derek,

  ellderwho:

  Pole, Derek how would you account for the laws of logic?

  Logic is a method for determining whether an argument or piece of reasoning is likely to be correct. It's impossible to argue usefully without using some form of logic.

  You really didnt answer my question, although you agree that logic is needed to argue, you fail to aknowledge how logic is derived from a world of matter energy and motion?
• 
  234

  Intelligent Design

  by Delta20 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hey all,.

  i am currently studying the topic of intelligent design (id).

  basically the id theory is the revival of the teleological argument for the existance of a deity.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  Also you don't have any proof so you make up a situation in which there is one and try to discredit funkyderek for not accepting non-existing proof. This is a pathetic line of reasoning. Admit it.

  You lost me here.

  Pole, Derek how would you account for the laws of logic?
• 
  234

  Intelligent Design

  by Delta20 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hey all,.

  i am currently studying the topic of intelligent design (id).

  basically the id theory is the revival of the teleological argument for the existance of a deity.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  Derek: In which case, we have no way of determining anything about such a being. Therefore, there is no reason to believe that such a being exists. Therefore, your theories prove nothing and we're right back where we started.

  If you stumbled across a proof that proved that God existed would you be able to accept it. Does your predispostion allow you to entertain the thought? My point, you maybe hostile to any proof.
• 
  234

  Intelligent Design

  by Delta20 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hey all,.

  i am currently studying the topic of intelligent design (id).

  basically the id theory is the revival of the teleological argument for the existance of a deity.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  Derek:. It's certainly conceivable that there's a complex invisible creator outside our universe that is not detectable in any way nor subject to the laws of our own universe nor even laws of logic. He may be able to make something out of nothing or square a circle, but without any evidence he's no more likely than the Invisible Pink Unicorn (PBUH).

  I see no reason to believe in such a being, when there is no evidence.

  This is just a conscious choice there is no God. You dont have evidence, there is no God and you certainly do not have faith, due to your slant towards logic, all your left with is logic, and that can only negate what I claim is proof.(theistic) Disclaiming what I hold asproof does not negate Gods existence.

  Since, as I said before all the facts are not known. Since you cannot know all the facts it is illogical to say there is no God. IMHO its more honest to say there is not sufficient evidence.(for God)
• 
  234

  Intelligent Design

  by Delta20 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hey all,.

  i am currently studying the topic of intelligent design (id).

  basically the id theory is the revival of the teleological argument for the existance of a deity.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  I'm simply noting that the premise is clearly not universally true.

  Very well, yet all of God is not known. "universally true" cannot be known. Since all the facts are not in.
• 
  234

  Intelligent Design

  by Delta20 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hey all,.

  i am currently studying the topic of intelligent design (id).

  basically the id theory is the revival of the teleological argument for the existance of a deity.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ellderwho

  SNG:..... Saying that God exists outside the time and space of his creation does not free him from the logical requirment of the premise that complex things require a creator. Unless you qualify that as, "Complex things that exist within our universe require a creator." But that sounds less like a solid logical premise and more like a statement intentionally crafted to support belief in a creator, so I don't think it is as compelling

  Your putting God in a box that God has created. To do this you must have some logical proof that enables you to make this assessement.
• 
  96

  Babylonian Business Records

  by VM44 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have read that thousands of babylonian business records exist on clay tablets, and that these alone provide proof that the year 607bce is not what the watchtower claims it is.. since business is conducted on a day to day basis, these records should provide a continuous record of each babylonian kings reign.

  is there a summary of the babylonian business records?

  in particular, a timeline showing the number of business tables in existence corresponding to various kings and dates within a king/s reign?.

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  ellderwho

  Neil,

  The evidence is compelling, overwjelming, cumulative, logical, reasonable but NOT INFALLIBLE and cannot be compared to the biblical data.

  Still no kings list.