Posts by ellderwho

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

LT..... In the case of Adam there was righteousness and law, for as long as that law wasn't transgressed. If there had been no law at all, he could have eaten what he wanted with no sin imputed at all.
I will agree with your statement as it refers to fallen mankind, just not to Adam in a state of innocence.

Do you think A&E would have partook of the fruit if God kept silient about the tree? (I would say no because theres no intrest)

Or did this peak their intrest right at the start.

Galatians 3:21: Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law
So by what means is God righteous?
You'll surely agree that he's not subject to law, nor able to sin.

Pul-ease, look at the verse "if a law had been given" In Adams case was a law given?

12

Should you believe in the trinity? Is Jesus Christ God Almighty?

by ChrisCross in

was there ever a refutation written up on this brochure?

i'm looking for something that examines all the sources and the credibility of the people they quote to supplement my research on this topic.

ellderwho

Beware getting this across to the Jw slave is yet another daunting task. Tread very lightly.

E.

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

Romans 5:13
for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

So could Adam be righteous under the law "not to touch the tree" since the law was to manifest sin.

You cant have it both ways. Either theres law with no righteousness, or theres righteousness with no law. You pick.

Question:
Is God righteous?

Theres no question

Galatians 3:21
Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

LT; does observing the law impart righteousness?

Definitely not, especially in our own case, and in regards to the Mosaic law which Paul speaks of.
The only one who "imparts righteousness" is God, and it's Christ's righteousness that is imparted.

Your confusing me here bud.

Just to clarify, I said no such thing.
I said that righteousness if not "imparted" (nor imputed) by law. THere's a big difference between taht and what you're now stating.

I think you stated exactly what I quoted you stating.

Now you say theres a big difference, care to enlighten?

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

EW:
How is it possible to display righteousness if there is no alternative?

My point is that where there is law there is no righteousness. I think

When you agreed that there is no righteousness in law that leaves Adam with law and no righteousness.

LT; does observing the law impart righteousness?
Definitely not, especially in our own case,

See?

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

LT; does observing the law impart righteousness?

Definitely not, especially in our own case, and in regards to the Mosaic law which Paul speaks of.

Why was there Law in the garden, what was the purpose?

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

What was the purpose of the law (the command not to eat the fruit) in the garden? Was it to keep Adam righteous?
Now there's an interesting one...
Great question!
We know that in connection with "the law" (in particular the Mosaic law) that it was there to make sin manifest. It would follow that the first law would show up sin, and so it did.I'm still of the opinion that man wasn't created sinful, though. Other wise the statement "it was very good" would be a misnomer.

LT; does observing the law impart righteousness? Galatians 3:21
Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

Why cant you answer a simply question, was Adam righteous while he sinned. Or as you put "author sin"??

Righteousness is a standard. Hence he was righteous right up to the point that he sinned.
While he was sinning and once he had finished sinning and after he had commited that first sin, he was no longer righteous. I don't understand your difficulty with that.

It does sound kinda of contradictory " Adam the righteous author of sin"

So Adams perfect mind could not keep him from sinning?
Correct. He made a choice...
It seems your hyper-calvinistic bent is keeping you from understanding the extent of "man's responsibility"

Bear with me while I try to reconcile a perfect mind making a un-perfect choice.

It makes my gears grind esspecially while thinking of why the tree was there to begin with. Thanks to DDog

His record was spotless (as far as the record goes).

Is spotless righteousness by defualt?

I ask you again, is good righteous?

Yeah, I'd have to say I'd eat with you as well being food is the international language. Probably one of the few that have actually eaten haggis

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

I thought your were a Clavinist?

No, I've never been one of those. I don't play the clarinet, either

Yes I do make typos.

Okay, now you have Adam authoring sin while righteous!..... Doesnt sound very righteous to me
Well then, did Adam author sin while he was righteous?
You're mixing righteousness with good, hence my comment that it was his first unrighteous (or wrong) act. He was "good" yet mixed his circumstances in such a way as to become the author of bad. Of course he had assistence, but the decision was his and he bore the responsibility for that.

How is it that Im the one mixing here? I never once implied or said Adam was righteous, further your the one that brought up the "very good" statement.

Why cant you answer a simply question, was Adam righteous while he sinned. Or as you put "author sin"??

Please be assured that I'm trying to be as forthright with honest answers as I can be.

Well whats your response?

Adam, on the other hand was created "good", "perfect", "sinless", and his every activity was righteous.

So Adams perfect mind could not keep him from sinning?

And his righteous activities did not include sinning correct?

Further theres no proof Adam was perfect let alone righteous.

His record shows he was neither

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

ellderwho

EW...You state "we are required" to do something such as obtaining righteousness, how is that done?

Simply put, go to Christ.

I thought your were a Clavinist?......... Required??

No I didn't. I stated he had it. Later he would have needed to obtain it, if he were to be saved.

So he was created with it. Like I tried to say before.

It's not a property, it's a standard. Hence it is diametrically opposed to sin.

Fine, Adam was created with this standard of righteous.

Up until he transgressed God's law (sinned) he was acting righteously.

Okay, now you have Adam authoring sin while righteous!..... Doesnt sound very righteous to me.

Well then, did Adam author sin while he was righteous?
His authoring sin was his first unrighteous act.

Your not answering the question......remember you said;

You never did answer directly whether or not you believe Adam was created unrighteous...

Please show some candor........ I dont like putting words in anyones mouth either.

He had external factors, too, which he blended. Fruit, law, temptation, etc.
It was how he blended the cocktail that led to him authoring sin.

C'mon LT you can do better than that......... Bleach

Acting righteously is adhering to a standard of "good".
Being good is possessing desirable qualities and moral excellence.

Whoa, doing a bit of spinning here.

No, being good is a standard of righteousness.

Im a sinner trying to be righteous. Not a righteous christian that sins sometimes.