come to the wedding.
' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.
' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.
I agree, "not judging God" is the main thrust of the teaching, not Double-Predestination
LT,
Would'nt you agree that the text indicates not to judge Gods decisions? If God chooses to have compassion or wrath.
Romans 9:20
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed itE.
n.j. governor resigns, admits gay affair
thu aug 12, 9:51 pm .
trenton, n.j. - in a stunning declaration, gov.
Yeah my governer is gay too!
Maybe there's more to the story. Maybe more will come out later. Maybe he's being blackmailed. Maybe . . .
IMHO He's done alot for NJ. Although a "tree hugger" he should've open public land usage. Poor governer, What about his wife. Nothing about her.
E.
come to the wedding.
' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.
' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.
Alanf writes::: Unlike many religious people who think they know the mind of the Christian God or some other god. : I do not make the claim to know the mind of God. (DDog) Then you're not much of a Christian, nor do you have any right to tell people about your God .
Romans 11:34 "Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Dont feel bad DDog I dont know his mind either.
E.
come to the wedding.
' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.
' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.
EW:Any comments on my points about Double-Predestination?
Tough to get around Ro. 9:13,22,23
E.
come to the wedding.
' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.
' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.
Maybe "Creation" is a more stable topic, else a more interesting argument.
Yeah, it was getting good. I enjoy picking the brain of an atheist, or picking at the "chemical reactions"
E.
come to the wedding.
' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.
' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.
wonder where Alan got to? He was around yesterday, and posting stuff about creation...
Ive read some of the thread, Boy Hoobs' dumb like me and DD. Yes and you to LT.
E.
i found this site yesterday and i thought i would share it with everyone.
you can find it here: www.skepticsannotatedbible.com.
it has everything from the bible, the quran, to the book of mormon.
Funny, a skeptic that never read the entire book.
E.
come to the wedding.
' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.
' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.
edited to correct spelling:
Although you jump though hoops with the survival of the fittest claim, statistical notions,Quantum mechanics, you still come very close to having a purpose without really saying it.
E.
missed the time limit on editing.
come to the wedding.
' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.
' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.
Alanf,
: Remember theres no purpose.Right, and there's certainly no purpose about the last sand grain's dropping down through the hole.
: Then it is demonstrated that you exist within the natural laws of the universe that cannot change.
That's virtually a self-evident truism that tells us nothing.
So you and the sand grain are unable to effect your outcome.
:: What do you think the fate of the grain of sand is? I didn't postulate one.: I think you did, you go down the hole.
Jesus Christ! You asked, "In the end does man has the same fate as the grain of sand?" It's pretty obvious that, within the context of my illustration, the sand grains go down through the hole in the hourglass. That's very easy to understand, no? That's not its "fate". At least, not in the sense that normal people mean when they talk about the fate of man. Otherwise you'd have to think that I might think that the fate of mankind is to literally go down some hole.
Your comments are nonsensical.
I'm not sure your understanding me. Or I guess you dont realize what your position does to you. This is your illustration of "life" not mine, and why would I consider your illustration "literal" thats nonsensical!
:: What do you think my purpose is?
Please answer the question. Remember that you told me that I "now have a purpose." I'm champing at the bit to know it.
::: Are you under the same laws as the grain of sand?
:: Of course.
:::: All of the grains obey certain statistical physical laws in falling through the hole, but it can hardly be argued that physical law was designed to enable a sand grain to survive
Ok Alan, your purpose evolves when you claim you can become better off than the natural laws that brought you forth.
My point is that "survival of the fittest", if you will, is a result of the working out of physical laws, not the purpose of those laws. So there is no mold to break out of.
Its my understanding that your lifes purpose is limited to and goverened by inherent laws and cannot violate them.
This is why I stated,
: You have no choice its been decided by natural law.
You will not admit you have a purpose of any sort because it will violate your position.
Although you jump though hoops with the survival of the fittest claim, statistical notions,Quantum mechanics, you still come very close to having a purpose with really saying it.
Your existence/purpose is merely the end result of universal inherent laws, energy, chemical reactions in your brain etc...
But then you state:
Our brains, which evolved over several million years into the best social computers the world has ever seen, and into excellent survival machines that rely specifically on logically putting those "real, observable effects" into actions that result in survival.
This tells me you have risen above those laws by what your brain does with information on hand in that you can survive. But your really not surviving. The end result is you die. The inherent laws take over. People are'nt living longer. (no choice)
There has to be a supernatural nudge if you will to get your life to the next level of "survival" but of course you'll not have that.
Of course I have choice. I have choice in many areas. I can choose to eat or not eat an ice cream cone. I can choose whether to respond to you. I can choose to believe in the Christian God in spite of the evidence.
Yeah, I'll give you those little chioces if thats whats important. But thats all you have. As far as God sure you can believe in him, so what. I will argue you cannot envoke him. (thread title)
You obviously have no real understanding of science or of the statistical notions that underlie modern physics, although I've tried to give you a little bit of information. Sand grains obey statistical laws on two levels: (1) the microscopic, quantum mechanical level; (2) the macroscopic, everyday level. The two levels are subtly connected. Quantum mechanics, via the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, teaches that absolutely nothing in the universe occurs with certainty, but only with a certain probability. This probability can be so close to unity that for all practical purposes an event is certain. According to these principles, it's virtually certain that even the last sand grain will fall through the hole rather than jump out the top of the hourglass, but no one can predict which one. On the other hand, if we could build an hourglass on an atomic scale and use individual atoms in place of sand grains, then there's a good probability that a "sand grain" will jump out the top of the "hourglass", but we still cannot -- even in principle -- predict which "grain" will fall through the "bottom".
Your right I have no real understatnding of science and statistical notions,but you do, and what has this knowledge done for you? Doesnt change your fate one iota! You will obey the natural laws. You have to.
Things like the mutation and natural selection that together drive evolution are quantum mechanically unpredictable.
Of choices,
: It seems to me you really have no freedom, or independency, and you are guided by these laws. That you can never exceed. Just a bag of chemicals reacting to stimuli.
Well you're wrong. See above.
Didnt you say you have the same fate as the sand grain. See above.
: I believe your arguement is from silience, because you will never know the outcome. What?
Whatta ya mean "what?"
Things like the mutation and natural selection that together drive evolution are quantum mechanically unpredictable.
No choice there eh.
E.
come to the wedding.
' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.
' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.
where some folks state that it's not their fault that God doesn't want them...
I dont think DD is presenting that thought.
I'll re-read DD post to see.....
E.
