The Great Crowd - It Doesnt Add Up...

by individual 7 Replies latest jw friends

  • individual
    individual

    Revelation 7:9 - After these things I saw, and look! A great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues standing before the throne and before the lamb.

    Watchtower 1st Jan 1997

    The harvest, indeed is great, but the workers are few. Therefore beg the Master to send out workers into his harvest. Are you responding to that call? Millions around the earth are. This is borne out by the new peak of 5,413,769 Kingdom publishers who reported field service during 1996.

    So there are 5,413,769 that no man is able to number?! Am I missing something?

  • nytelecom1
    nytelecom1

    yes.....those that are resurrected......

  • individual
    individual

    According to JW ideology the Great Crowd comes through the great tribulation, it does not include the resurrected ones........

  • logical
    logical

    ooops i didnt read the thread

  • bboyneko
    bboyneko

    Well, there are 86,400 seconds in a day, and if you counted one JW a second it would take you, one man, 62 days to count them all. That's assuming you counted 24 hours a day, 7 days a week with no stopping for eating, sleeping, scratching your butt or watching the latest episode of 'Friends.'

    So technically, no 'one' man is able to number them all. Heheh wtahc the watchtower use this argument in a future Watchtower under 'Questions from Zombies'

    Cuz it's just like the watchtower to insert new words into bible scriptures, like adding 'sustaining life' into the scripture that says 'abstain' from blood.

    -Dan

    Revelation 22
    18
    I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
    19
    And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    like adding 'sustaining life' into the scripture that says 'abstain' from blood.

    bboyneko, does that one bug the hell out of you too? I guess it is the life vs. death nature of the conclusion one reaches that makes this one irk me so much.

  • waiting
    waiting

    Howdy,

    like adding 'sustaining life' into the scripture that says 'abstain' from blood.

    Which scripture are you referring to? And how is it translated in other bible translations?

    Since y'all brought up the discussion..........

    waiting

  • bboyneko
    bboyneko

    The WTBTS cites 2 scriptures in the New testament as evidence that modern christians should not accept blood transfusions, as you can see from the following scriptures they cite, that conclusion is going a little past 'what is written'

    Acts 15:19-21

    New International Version (NIV)
    19
    "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
    20
    Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
    21
    For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."

    Darby Translation (DARBY)
    19
    Wherefore *I* judge, not to trouble those who from the nations turn to God;
    20
    but to write to them to abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from what is strangled, and from blood.
    21
    For Moses, from generations of old, has in every city those who preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath.

    Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
    19
    wherefore I judge: not to trouble those who from the nations do turn back to God,
    20
    but to write to them to abstain from the pollutions of the idols, and the whoredom, and the strangled thing; and the blood;
    21
    for Moses from former generations in every city hath those preaching him -- in the synagogues every sabbath being read.'

    King James Version (KJV)
    19
    Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
    20
    But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
    21
    For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

    New Living Translation (NLT)

    19And so my judgment is that we should stop troubling the Gentiles who turn to God, 20except that we should write to them and tell them to abstain from eating meat sacrificed to idols, from sexual immorality, and from consuming blood or eating the meat of strangled animals. 21For these laws of Moses have been preached in Jewish synagogues in every city on every Sabbath for many generations."

    As you can see, ABSTAIN is used universally. And as you can see from the context (JW's usually only quote acts 15:20) They are saying basically, 'To keep from stumbling the Jews who have been practising all the antiquated laws of moses, the gentiles need to stop doing stuff that they have been raised to view as abhorrant, like eating meat that hasn't been bled properly.' The ancient jews were also not allowed to eat pork, or certain fat, they had many dietary requirements. When jesus came he cancelled all that out. You'd think that if god intended us to die over blood, he would have stressed it just a tad bit more. Also the context of the entire chapter deals with jews being pissed because the gentiles are not circumcised, and they have been taught since birth to think of them as evil and unclean, and here they are, joining their ranks, and they refuse to become circumcised! So the judgement was, ok, they dont have to mutilate themselves, but they should stop doing that other stuff to ease tensions between the two camps.

    The other scripture used is also in acts and is a refference to the acts 15:20 decree.

    ab·stain (b-stn, b-)
    intr.v. ab·stained, ab·stain·ing, ab·stains

    To refrain from something by one's own choice: abstain from traditional political rhetoric. See Synonyms at refrain1.
    To refrain from voting: Forty senators voted in favor of the bill, 45 voted against it, and 15 abstained.

    [Middle English absteinen, to avoid, from Old French abstenir, from Latin abstinre, to hold back : abs-, ab-, away; see ab-1 + tenre, to hold; see ten- in Indo-European Roots.]

    from "abstain", to "sustaining life", go figure.

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