work mate loves bible, help pleezzz

by kilroy2 3 Replies latest jw friends

  • kilroy2

    I have a woman that I work with, she heard me and another person talking about how the bible was demeaning to women, she whipped out here handy dandy pocket bible and wanted to argue,that women are in subjection to men but not demeaned in the bible. can some of you who know where the scrip is to back me up send me some of the women are scum scriptures? thanks you can email me at [email protected] thanks for the help

  • Cygnus

    From what I can (hazily) remember, there are 2 schools of thought on this topic.

    One, that St. Paul was obviously a male chauvenist.

    Two, that Paul was quoting rules and regulations that were being practiced by Judaizers in the congregations ("I" statements, and "not I but the Lord" etc etc being sort of like how we quote or copy and paste what someone previously said in a post and then respond to it) and then refuted them. To my knowledge, Joseph Malik and aChristian hold these beliefs and are better qualified than I to go into detail. Especially since I didn't sleep last night and now am seeing double.

  • Jeffro

    Judges 19:22-24:

    22 While they were making their hearts feel good, look! the men of the city, mere good-for-nothing men, surrounded the house, shoving one another against the door; and they kept saying to the old man, the owner of the house: "Bring out the man that came into your house, that we may have intercourse with him." 23 At that the owner of the house went on out to them and said to them: "No, my brothers, do not do anything wrong, please, since this man has come into my house. Do not commit this disgraceful folly. 24 Here are my virgin daughter and his concubine. Let me bring them out, please, and YOU rape them and do to them what is good in YOUR eyes. But to this man YOU must not do this disgraceful, foolish thing."
  • Ingenuous

    Just a note on Judges 19:22-24: If the "Bible lady" is at all familiar with this argument, she might note that there's nothing in this scripture to say God approved of this behavior. In fact, she might point out that Israel was not only outraged at the incident, but they got God's approval to punish the tribe of Benjamin since the rapists/murderers were from there - they actually killed 25,000 over this incident. [Personally, I'd have also liked to have seen the "old man" who gave the concubine and his daughter over to the rapists whup'd good as well.] She might point to the similar situation faced by Lot, when he offered his daughters to the raving mob outside his door in place of the angels who had come to visit him. There's nothing to indicate God approved of that either - she might actually assert that God made sure it didn't happen by having the angels drag Lot back in and then strike the mob blind.

    Some see Paul's words as actually encouraging a more respectful view of women than was common in Greeks society at the time, concluding that his refering to women as a "weaker vessel", for instance, meant that (1) men were already "weak" vessels, and (2) the analogy would cause men to treat women like a precious, fragile vase - as opposed to a more hardy, less important vessel that could be knocked around more without as much damage.

    Others assert that, for example, the qualifications for positions in 1 Timothy, which applied to men, had nothing to do with a persons' worth before God, but was simply an organizational move based on qualifications only God may understand. Some also see a lot of it being Paul's opinion, not a mandate from God.

    Just some ideas to have in mind when you go back - How women are portrayed in the Bible seems more a matter of opinion and perspective than anything else.

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