http://www.dci.dk/da/php/artikel_visning.php?artikel=629
Hi Dave,
The article begins with this. Which came first, Hinduism or Christianity? Hinduism unless you include the fact that sacred scripture dates back onto Moses day. Christ also fulfills prophecy and in such manner as Isaiah 53 and Psalms 22 which describe crucifixtion in detail before it became a form of execution. I also do not respect the date setting og liberal scholars who so often are naturalists, predisposed against the concept of prophecy on purely philosophical grounds. I believe the dating of conservative scholarship, Old and New Testaments!
by Johannes Aagaard
This exposition does not primarily concern itself with Siddhartha and Jesus but specifically with Buddah and Christ. Siddhartha is the name of the figure who later became known as Buddah and who today is the center of Buddhism. Jesus is the name of the figure who later became known as Christ and who today is the center of Christianity. Actually, they were respectively known as the Buddha and the Messiah, that is Buddha and Christ with the definite article, because the two expressions are not names, as are Siddhartha and Jesus, but they indicate the significance of the two figures. Siddhartha became the Awakened, Jesus became the Anointed.
It is, however, true that the Buddha is often translated into the Enlightened "One," but this is a secondary expression which is even somewhat misleading since the state in which the Buddha lives is called Nirvana, and Nirvana describes the state of being burned out, burned out like when a candle light burns out. Burned out or extinct is not really the same as enlightened! It is much more meaningful to translate the Buddha into the Awakened, because the whole point is that the Buddha who , like every other human being lived in the nightmare of life, was lucky enough to wake up from his dream world and to acknowledge the true meaning of life. Jesus became Christ which is the Greek word for Messiah which means the Anointed. This expression was primarily used about the King who, as the Anointed, was appointed to reign and to bring justice to his people. At the anointing, he was entrusted with the power so that he could assume it without reservation.
Siddhartha is a linguistic composition of power and justice, and Jesus means salvation corresponding to the name of Joshua. These common names are the first indication that there is a difference, and yet there is a similarity, too, since salvation first and foremost means that there is a savior who has the power to administer justice! Siddhartha was born to be a king; Jesus was born the son of an artisan, a man of the people, crying for justice.
And yet it was Jesus who was proclaimed king as the Messiah, whereas the king's son was awakened and took up life as a voice who called people out from the nightmare of life.
Siddhartha, who left his palace, became the great seeker who eventually found the reality he sought. Jesus never sought because he was found from the very beginning and was able to nominate himself as the goal for all religious search.
One could go on and on, and one could describe the two historic figures in so many ways, and one could also very well contradict what has been said here since both these figures as historic figures no longer are historic. They died but, again, in very different ways. The Buddha died from eating roast pork gone rotten. He died an old man, about 80 years old, and his life was good and safe, that is to say that his life was good without exaggerations of either luxury or asceticism. Jesus, on the other hand, died the death of a criminal from torture and execution. And it happened in the prime of his life when he was bout 30 years old.
These relatively probable historical facts are not, however, the reason why we today see them as the center of the two most important world religions. Their history of effect is quite different from their history of origin.
I hope this is the first of many links....
Rex
For Dave. my first link:difference between Buddha and Christ
by Shining One 7 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Shining One
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Shining One
Dave,
I don't see any reason to connect Hinduism or Buddhism to Judaism. I also researched Zoroastrianism to some extent and will post a good link that explains it in no small detail. There is no indication that pantheism had many adherents in the middle east, not the same for dualism....
Of course, the Romans took their gods from the Greeks and their culture was prevalent clear into Persia.
First follow up:
Educational Setting
For the first century Jew, religion, law, history, ethics and education were inseparable. Through both written (Torah) and oral (Mishna) law, teaching was passed from generation to generation. Rabbi's (teachers) and synagogues were highly esteemed aspects of society.
* The Roman Empire thrived on syncretism – seeking to have all people (Greek, Syrian, Egyptian, Jew, etc.) maintain their own traditions and philosophies, and yet seeing them all under a general Roman perspective.
* The Jewish education emphasized law, ethics, and history for the purpose of right, moral living. In contrast, the Greek education system called “gymnasium” emphasized science, arts, linguistics and bodily training.
* Most Roman citizens were influenced by the teachings of different philosophical systems; the two major philosophies of the time being Stoicism and Cynicism.
* For Jews, the “Torah”, translated “law” was the source of all learning – religion, history and ethics. The Torah includes the first five books of the modern Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy)
* The “synagogue” translated “house of assembly” was the Jewish place of both worship and education
Johnson, Luke T.The Writings of the New Testament: An Interpretation.Fortress Press, Philadelphia. 1986.
Josephus, Flavius.The Jewish Antiquities, 20.200.
Kingsbury, Jack Dean. Proclamation Commentaries: Matthew. Fortress Press, Philadelphia. 1986.
The Student Bible: New International Version. Notes by Philip Yancy and Tim Staffod. Zondervan Bible Publishing, Grand Rapids, Michigan. 1986.
Ward, Kaari. Jesus and His Times. The Reader’s Digest Association, Inc., Pleasantville, New York. -
Shining One
http://www.meta-religion.com/World_Religions/Zoroastrim/zoroastrism.htm
(You no doubt know that it is a form of belief known as Dualism.)
Zoroastrianism
Zorastrianism is an ancient religion. The Founder of Zorastrianism was the Persian Prophet Zorathustra, meaning "He of the golden light". The Greek form "Zoraster" (1200 B.C.) also knows him. Zoraster's people inhabited strips of Central Asia before moving to Persia - now Iran.
Modern scholars do not accept a traditional belief that Zoraster lived in 500 B.C. and that the Greek philosopher Pythogarus studied with him. Zorastrianism is a belief in a struggle between good and evil. He taught that there is one Eternal God "Ahura Mazda" who is Lord of Wisdom. He is wholly wise, just and good. "Angra mainyu" the spirit of evil, wholly wicked and malevolent.
Ahura Mazda called upon a number of lesser good spirits called the to destroy this evil. Yazatas - chief among them were six moral divinities, immortal beings of Great Goodness. There were also Gods from ancient Persian religions such as Mithua. The Yazatas had special functions such as justice, devotion and wholeness. The evil spirit Angara Mainyu was aided by a host of demons. Followers of Zorastrianism believed that good will eventually triumph over evil and that the last day will come.
Zoraster was the first founder of a world religion to prophesy and end of time and of earthly life. Zorastrians believe that the souls of the dead will be reunited with their resurrected bodies on the last day. The dead man and the living will undergo the Last Judgement. The wicked will be destroyed body and soul but the just people will be unharmed.
Observances Zoraster instructed his followers to pray in the prescence of fire. Fire was a symbol of order and justice. An earthly fire can represent fire, by the Sun, or by the Moon. Zorastrians must pray five times every 24 hours - sunrise, noon, sunset, midnight and dawn. They pray standing while untying and tying a sacred cord tied around their waist. There are seven communal festivals.
The most important is No Ruz or Navroz - the Parsi New Year new day observed at the spring of Equinox. People took special care about the purity of fire, water and earth. They disposed of the dead by exposing the corpses in barren places or on stone towers, called Towers of Silence, where they are eaten by vultures. Zorastrians practice a number of rites for regaining lost purity. Prayers are regularly preceded by ritual ablutions. The community is divided into lay people and priests. Boys begin to study the sacred text at the age of seven years. Some priests tend the sacred fire kept burning in the temples. The best-known priest, was Magi.
Zoraster composed seventeen Gatas - sacred songs. "Ahuna Vairyo" is a sacred chant. The writings are in an ancient language called the Old Avestan. Collections of Zorastrian Holy Texts are called Avesta. Translation's with glossaries and commentaries are called the Zend.
Zoraster, after living alone and wandering began to have revelations at the age of 36. Zorastrianism was the State Religion of the Persian Empire 550-330 B.C. Persian Empire included Babylonia, where many Jews lived and Palestine had a great influence on the early beliefs of Judaism. It also influenced some Jewish sects from among which Christianity emerged. It also contributed much to Islam much. After the Muslim conquest of Persia, Islam became the state religion. They finally settled in Gujarat, where they are called Parsis. The few Zorastrians left in Persia suffered persecution. In 1900, many Zorastrians migrated to Iran from India.
Check out the link above. I looked into this one too in my wandering days after leaving the Watchtower...
Rex -
tetrapod.sapien
it all owes it's thanks to the musty pre-history cave where a paleolithic man made an accounting for the lightning that started the fire. the credulous tribe passes it on to their children.after that, moses and vishnu and jesus and all the rest are memetic history.
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tetrapod.sapien
I looked into this one too in my wandering days after leaving the Watchtower...
but you just traded jehovah for jesus?
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EvilForce
Who's Dave?
Buddha was an inspiration to all of us. Read the Jesus Sutras if you want to learn anything about the white thug Jesus.....throws out the stupid / inane crap of the bible and simplifies it to what is really imporatant and casts a new light on things. -
seven006
Rex,
I expected a little more from you than a few web site cut and paste type responses………………
I am also leery of your true intentions by starting a new thread to side step specific questions I, and others, had asked and you have not answered from your previous thread. You seem to be preaching and trying to draw attention to yourself instead of contributing to a previously running open dialog. Is this the same technique you use with your students? This is typical when someone is overly agenda orientated and tries to transfer the flow of a conversation to fit their limitations. This shows (to me at least) that you are not interested in looking at, or contemplating anything that addresses contradictory concepts outside of your comfort zone. This makes me wonder about your teaching ability and your real intentions with your students as well as your posts on this forum. ..…………………….
You assume that since the bible speaks of time beginning with its version of creation and the on going history of humanity, it must have been the earliest historical record if factual events. This is the same pit that most religions of the world have fallen into and has shaken the foundation of their modern day believers…………….
With the continual advancement of technology we are given tools that simply blow the teaching of all ancient concepts of creation out of the water. Religions find the conundrum they have imposed on themselves with stating that their all knowing and all-powerful gods have developed the laws of physics that control our existence on this planet. This comes back to bop them in the head when these laws of physics are better understood as human existence advances. As it now has been proven the bible’s story of creation as well as the flood and many of it’s so called events caused by miracles of god are totally impossible given the laws of physics that all believers say god has created. The child like concept of “god can do anything cuz he’s god” gets weaker as human kind advances in it’s knowledge of many things you choose not to accept. This is exactly why the nations of Islam both envy and hate the west. They stay locked into a two thousand year old mentality as the world passes them by……………………….
The bible as well as other religions “sacred writings” have been shown to be exactly what they are, books of myth. These myths and god heroes that exist outside of the laws of physics are nothing more than an amalgamation of many like god heroes that were swapped back and forth like comic book heroes around the camp fires of traveling merchants of ancient times. They came from the Far East, Northern Africa, Europe and other trading routs and swapped goods, and stories, in the most central place of civilization of the time. Persia. This is how we got the many similarities between the god heroes like Krishna, Buddha, Osiris, Isis, Horus, Jesus and many more. The similarities are just too close to look at them as coincidence………………….
If you can break out of your mental box and look at the evidence objectively without a specific agenda of “needing” to believe the Christian take on everything you might be shockingly surprised………………..
Whether you do this or not makes no difference to me. I completely understand why people need a specific religion to sleep better at night and feel safe. I also understand why people need others to agree with them to validate their belief in the hard to believe and physically impossible.…………………………..
Some people have needed such belief and validation to exist since the beginning of time. That need for social validation is one of the molding tools that have given us the history of culture and civilization. The differences in the specifics of these cultures and civilization are highly dependant on where one was born and the popular god myths spread around and accepted by its enclosed society. Simply stated, you live in what is considered “a western civilization” so you are Christian. If you were born in another part of the world your conviction to your religious belief would be very different and you would swear to it just as adamantly as you swear to Christianity……………………….
If you really want to understand the vast world of why people think and believe what they do, expand your limited knowledge of understanding. Don’t just fall back on one of the easiest and simple concepts of our existence wrapped in the brightly colored packaging of the gods. Read about human psychology, science, philosophy, archeology, anthropology, geology, behavioral science, and anything that has to do with our planet and the creatures that have forced their way to the top of the food chain………………….
The more you research, the better you will understand and see the big picture instead of just a tiny aspect of it. Don’t settle on one or two authors or concepts that fit into your zone, but take a little from each thing you read and see if it has continuity with others. No one person or one concept is absolutely correct or incorrect. Use your own mind and your ability to think to come to more intelligent and thought out conclusions. Try not to get mentally pigeonholed into one author’s writings or one social group’s agenda orientated concept. When you have done that, then you can teach your students “how to think” as apposed to “what to think”. The facts and truth about our existents here on earth will not always give you the warm fuzzies like religion does. As the saying goes, reality bites.
Now, if you could go back to the original thread and try to answer the “specific” questions I had asked, I, as a fellow exJW poster on this forum, would appreciate it. BTW, I am not in any wondering days after leaving the watchtower. Iv been out over twenty years and have a lot of time to explore. Any wondering days I may have had in the past are pretty much over.
Take care,
Dave -
Shining One
Hi Bo-wevilforce,
>Buddha was an inspiration to all of us. Read the Jesus Sutras if you want to learn anything about the white thug Jesus.....throws out the stupid / inane crap of the bible and simplifies it to what is really imporatant and casts a new light on things.
Let's see, did he start that pantheistic religion where you can't kill cows, rats and other critters, even flies? Did you know that diseases from rats has killed hundreds of miilions of people? Then there are the storehouses of grain and other food eaten and contaminated by rats. Yea, Hindus and Buddhists are both reliable faiths to invest in!
You need some new light and I ain't talking Watchtower of easter mysticism.
Rex
Dave,
So sorry you are disappointed. It doesn't take much in the way of investigation to discount pantheisma nd its offshoots.
Rex