Ingrained Belief Systems.

by Blueblades 8 Replies latest jw friends

  • Blueblades
    Blueblades

    We all know how hard it is to transcend an ingrained belief system. That is something that many people are not willing or able to do. At least not quickly or easily, if not at all. Transcending ingrained belief systems is as inherently difficult a process to facilitate as it is to undergo.

    Its taken me some years to transcend some of my ingrained belief systems. I have been helped by this forum and the many who have posted here in a large way. I hope that some of what I have shared over the years has helped some of you.

    It might take some of us countless and meticulously tiny steps of ever expanding detail to begin to transcend ingrained belief systems that have become a part of us because of our culture and upbringing. For some, I realize that they are content in their belief systems and that is certaintly a very personal matter and I am not here challenging that at all.

    Many here have been willing to step outside the box as it were, and take another look around and are happy that they did. I know that I am happy that I did. Thanks to all of you, the list of names is too, too long to post.

    Anyone want to share their experiences concerning transcending ingrained belief systems, what it took to accomplished this?

    Blueblades, who stepped outside the box.

  • Daunt
    Daunt

    It took me about 4 years to truly find myself a good path to live. It all started when I was newly 14 and I needed a break from my parents controlling attitude. I had zero true friends and I just couldn't handle it anymore. I went to a somewhat party school where pratically everybody there drank, smoke and did drugs. So it was no time before I started hanging around the "wrong crowd" and started to smoke weed after school and many times during lunch. Every Single Day! It's rediculous once I think about it but I was just trying to escape and feel what fun can really be (not a good excuse). Anyways after things became seriously heated with my parents from their suspicion that I was smoking from me smelling like smoke every day and whatnot. Well anyways right when school came back from the winter break (3 days infact) I had a good smoke out with a few buds at this gal's house. Well it was some of the strongest marijuana I ever had so I knew this was going to hinder my ability to function right in school. Well anyways I went back to school and I was in gym and this lady came in and looked straight at me. Anyways long story short she brung me to the police office in the school and they found some stuff on me. Found out later that my "friend" Robert ratted on me about selling him ciggerettes (which I would never do) so all this mess with down.)


    Anyweays I got arrested and had to go through a year and a half of of probation, alternative school, one of the worse schools in the whole city and it was pretty crappy but I endured. All of this has a point (sorry if it's kind of not the right topic to talk about), through all this I experienced what a lot of "the world" can be. To be honest it was exhilerating. I wouldn't do all this again to save my life but I met so many differnet people. I've met the future criminals of America and I could see the human aspect of them. Sure they weren't the most moral of people but I still saw human in them and wanting to be accepted. Seeing all this and how my parents handled it really changed me. I felt so sorry for putting this through my parents but just how they put even more attention towards "spiritual matters" and how this didn't help out real life problems. Creating controversity with my parents (even though it was somewhat emotionally devastating to see them through this) really showed how much the religion was missing. It didn't give my parents anything and I just wanted to hand them the world and take away their problems but they wouldn't listen to any of my advice. They just looked to the religion that didn't offer them anyways. Well after I went to a good school my junior year and the whole case was sealed my parents just blocked it out their heads. Didn't ask me how I was doing with the situation, or when I asked them how they were dealing they just isolated themselves and shoved more of this religion my way.

    This lead me to start researching my way of life, really through away my ingrained belief systems. I just wish I could make it up to my family for putting them through this. But outside of doing chores and acting like a good witness, there doesn't seem to be much I can do.

  • poppers
    poppers

    Most people are unconsciously bound to belief systems of every sort - in a very real sense they are sleep-walking through their lives because of this. Rather than seeing things as they are, they are looking at events through the varied belief systems that have been accepted. One's very identity is enmeshed with the beliefs that are held. So, to challenge a long held belief system is to challenge one's own identity.

    To actually challenge a specific belief system is quite courageous because doing so is fraught with peril, for the very direction one's life takes can be at stake. But any kind of change can be very scary for people, for this means stepping into unknown territory. Usually what happens is that one set of beliefs is substituted for the ones held. The irony, of course, is that the new set of beliefs carries with it another confining viewpoint, even though it may be different - this is bondage, and this is the foundation of separation and suffering. What to do? I suggest that it would be wise to go to the root of the dynamics of accepting/rejecting beliefs of every kind.

    What usually gets overlooked in all of this is the careful examination of just who it is that is holding onto any belief. In other words, just who am I anyway? We think we know, but do we really? If one is sincere and truly wants to know, one can begin with this basic question. Who/what am I? Try to find out by asking yourself this and see if you can find out. See if you can find out specifically who or what you are beyond any belief in who or what you are. Everyone has ideas about who they are, but are these anything but ideas? Can you be an idea, something which is subject to change, or are you something else, something which doesn't change, something which isn't subject to suffering and which isn't separate from all that is.

    Asking this question "Who/what am I?" challenges the root belief system that usually goes unchallenged by the vast majority of people - the belief in 'me' as a separate and distinct entity. Most who will read this response will dismiss it out of hand as something rather silly. Of course they know who they are, goes their thinking; why should I bother with asking a question which has such an obvious answer? This attitute is rather typical, but in reality, it is an unconscious evasion of a subtle, but core fear - the fear of discovering that the 'me' I take myself to be doesn't actually exist. Who wants to be confronted with the fact that they don't exist? Almost no one is willing to make this examination, because to do so is to come face-to-face with their core belief, the belief in me, and the frightening prospect that they don't exist as a separate and distinct entity. To do so presents them with their greatest fear, the fear of facing life without absolutely any beliefs at all.

    However, those who are willing to make this sort of self-inquiry will discover something literally unimaginable. When the discovery is made of just what one is comes a life that is fulfilled, a life that is rooted in unshakeable peace, and a life that is truly free. Henceforth, belief systems of all sorts are easily spotted as just that, beliefs that are held by imaginary characters; characters that are no more than thought forms that congeal around a bundle of ideas that are taken to be 'me'. What one is lies beyond all beliefs, beyond the mind and senses. What one is is unbounded by space or time, not subject to change or injury. What one is is eternal and free, and can be discovered this very moment.

  • Daunt
    Daunt

    Facing your fears is one of the greatest tools for advancement. Many fears are totally unfounded, face them and attack them with everything you can and you will see the fear as what it is.

  • Frog
    Frog

    hey bb, good JWD topic:)

    I think the key is not fooling yourself into believing that you're over it, because I doubt very much for those of us raised in the org that we will ever be completely free from the effects of negative indoctrination. I found the most important key was being honest with yourself about how deeply you are affected, not trying to put on the facade that you're brave, strong and unflappable when there's no way we can be. Another vital aspect of beating it for me was realising that when you have relapses of jw "conscience" that it's perfectly natural considering what we've been through. There were moments when I was terrified and gripped by absolute fear for challenging what I knew was theoretically and doctrinally wrong, but that's the thing with indoctrination, it not a logical thing. It takes time, but I found the only way was to tackle it head on, disproving the JW teachings one by one and replacing them with realistic trains of thought. This way when one of my jw buttons are pushed (i.e., major earthquake in Turkey, pestilence in China, Terror attack in the UK), you know all those typical situations that your dub mind assimilates to for no logical reason, I gradually start to react with my own beliefs and ideas from new logical information that I've taken in. Over time your mind starts to skip over the old dub thinking, and you automatically start to assimilate to your own logical reasonsings.

    I can fully recommend 'the road less travelled' by Scott Beck. The first few chapters about 'map making', taking in new information despite that it causes you pain etc is a perfect start for any dub making their decent from the borg.

    Hard work, but it all pays off. Eventually you end up with pure mental freedom, and a quiet peaceful mind Frog x

  • paws
    paws

    Poppers........so, so agree with you.

    In fact I am grateful that my 12 year association with WTBS came to an end because I slowly came to realise of my own accord that it was time for me to 'stand still' and carry out a super evaluation of 'me' completely void of all and every belief system that I had ever entertained.......the results have been amazing and wonderful through which I have been able to totally disconnect from the Society that controlled my very being.

  • IP_SEC
    IP_SEC


    Well, I'm not saying I'm completely healed, but basically giving up on any chance of there being a Jehovah was the first step. I said a final prayer, explained myself to him the best I could and told him I couldnt believe in him through his current revelation of himself and his personality. What really helped a lot are reading books showing the fallicy of believing the bible, the otherside of the story shall we say?

    I went through a period of ceremonial smoking to rebel (not that I'm endorsing that)

    I still feel the need to bow and pray before a sit down meal at the table, but that is getting less... old habits I guess. I feel pretty lucky to be where I am now in such a short period of time.

    Some take shorter and some take longer I imagine. I think some of us can never fully give up ingrained beliefs. I've heard that counseling helps..

    Matt

  • poppers
    poppers

    That's great to hear, paws!

  • BrendaCloutier
    BrendaCloutier

    I still expect a prayer at special family gatherings of Kevan's family. But since they are mostly agnostic/athiest, it never happens, and has never happened in the 20 years I've known them!

    One of my Ah Ha moments in how deeply ingrained my brainwashing had been was in 1987 I went to my first AA meeting. It was Sunday July 7th in the basement of a Baptist Church in Ballard, Seattle. I couldnt open the door! I was afraid to touch it! And I had been out for 10 years!

    Finally I touched the door. Nothing happened. I opened the door. Nothing happened. I went in. Nothing happend. I was early like a good JW would be!

    The meeting was a women's meeting and I related to everything they said. I poured my heart out, and I was accepted, even though I later found out that wasn't the way it usually happens. But Oh My Gawd! They Prayed! And I was ashamed because I didn't know the words to the lord's prayer.

    When I left..... nothing happened, except I now knew that there were no reprisals for entering a non-KH church of any other religion.

    It took some heavy duty work with 30 days in-house treatment and extensive work in AA to not only recover from my roaring alcoholism, but it was what helped break my vicious belief structure.

    One counselor suggested I start a group called A.C.O.R.N. Adult Children Of Religious Nuts! I thought she was serious, but it was a joke. I had lost my sense of humour. I think y'all would now say I've found it again!

    Love y'all

    Bren

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