What happens to the 144K in the new system?

by M.J. 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    Quick question that I just pondered...Isn't the teaching of the WTS that at the end of this system, the 144K will get transferred to heaven to manage things from up there there with Christ? And that this will happen by a creation of "spiritual bodies" in heaven that will somehow be a recreation of "them"? What happens to their bodies on earth? Will they be dissolved into gasses? Or will they just drop dead?

    Also, Russell and Rutherford had taught that the "ancient worthies" like Abraham, Isaac, etc., will be immediately resurrected on the earth as perfect humans, like Adam in the garden. As such they would have the supernatural ability to communicate directly with the 144K in heaven to receive orders, kinda like how Adam could communicate with God before the fall. Now the role of the "ancient worthies" has been taken over by the "great crowd" who will not be given instant perfection in the new system (correct me if I'm wrong). How will they receive orders from the 144K now?

  • blondie
    blondie

    Well, MJ, the WTS has speculated about this many ways.

    They have taught that some of the anointed will remained through the GT and go to heaven after dying in the new system.

    But then they have said that all the anointed have to be in heaven when the marriage of the bride takes place shortly after the great tribulation.

    So they have it covered either way.

    ***

    w90 8/15 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers

    ยท

    Will some anointed Christians survive the "great tribulation" to live on earth in the new world before being taken to heaven?

    Pointedly, the Bible does not say.

    Christians have long been interested in the privileges that God might extend to them. (Acts 1:6) That has especially been true in our time since the Kingdom was established. (Matthew 24:3, 24, 34) With the end of this wicked system to come in their time, Christians have wondered whether some spirit-anointed ones might live through "the war of the great day of God" and serve on earth for a time before receiving their heavenly reward. (Revelation 16:14) The Bible does not say that this will occur, yet certain patterns and prophecies have been taken to indicate that it might. Rather than be dogmatic, we can watch to see how God will handle things.

    Some Biblical events have parallels later on among God?s people. For instance, we know that Jonah was in a large fish for three days and three nights. Some people would view that as simply an example of divine deliverance, but Jesus said that it was a prophetic pattern of how he would be in the grave for a comparable period before his resurrection. (Jonah 1:17; Matthew 12:40) Yes, Jonah?s experience was a prophetic type. Understandably, God?s servants have looked at prophecies and specific Bible accounts to see whether these might indicate how Jehovah will yet deal with them.

    As an example involving Bible prophecy, The Watch Tower of December 15, 1928, discussed Micah 5:2-15. The book of Micah dealt with ?the Assyrian?s? desolating of Samaria and the Jews? return from exile in Babylon. (Micah 1:1, 5-7; 4:10) But it also pointed to later developments, such as the Messiah?s birth in Bethlehem. (Micah 5:2) Micah prophesied that after their deliverance from "the Assyrian," "the remaining ones of Jacob" would become "like dew from Jehovah" and "like a maned young lion among droves of sheep." (Micah 5:6-8) The Watch Tower commented: "This may be taken as an indication that some of the remnant will be on earth even after Armageddon is fought and will then have some more work to do in the name of the Lord and to his praise and glory." Notice the modest, reasonable language used to introduce this possibility: "This may be taken as an indication."

    What of a Bible account that might parallel such survival on earth? One example that has been presented concerns Noah and his family. Noah has been viewed as typifying Jesus in this time of the end. (Genesis 6:8-10; Matthew 24:37) As Noah led his wife and their three sons and daughters-in-law through the end of that ancient system, Christ will provide leadership for the remnant of his bride class and those who become children of the "Eternal Father," Jesus. Noah?s wife survived the Flood and shared in the renewing of true worship on a cleansed earth. A parallel might be the survival into the new world of a remnant of the bride class.?Isaiah 9:6, 7; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Revelation 21:2, 9.

    Other Biblical accounts have also been viewed as suggesting that some of the anointed might live into the new world. For example, Jeremiah survived the destruction of Jerusalem; "the man" with the secretary?s inkhorn remained to see the executional work before he went back to give his report.?Ezekiel 9:4, 8, 11.

    Comments about the possibility that some of the anointed might survive into the new world are made with good intentions and in the light of Biblical precedents for trying to understand prophecies or patterns that could have later parallels. If it turns out that none of the anointed are left on earth, there will be no reason for dissatisfaction. We already have accepted that Biblical matters are understood better as time passes. For instance, The Watchtower of July 15, 1981, discussed Micah 5:6-9 again and explained that "the remnant of spiritual Israelites have not had to wait until after . . . Har?Magedon in order to be as a ?dew? of refreshment to people." This discussion again offered the possibility that the remnant might survive God?s great war and for a while "continue to be as a refreshing ?dew? to the ?great crowd? of ?other sheep.?" We can see, though, that the passing of time and the increase in spiritual light can broaden and alter our understanding of prophecy or of Bible dramas.?Proverbs 4:18.

    We do know that the Bible links the ?coming of the Son of man? with ?the gathering of the chosen ones from the four winds.? (Matthew 24:29-31) Also, during "the presence of the Lord" in Kingdom power, anointed ones sleeping in death are raised to life in heaven. (1 Thessalonians 4:15, 16) These sealed ones are there to become part of the Lamb?s wife. When does that occur?

    In the book of Revelation, immediately after John tells of God?s executing the religious harlot, Babylon the Great, he describes "the marriage of the Lamb." A filthy, immoral "woman" is removed from the scene, and we see "the bride, the Lamb?s wife" ?arrayed in bright, clean, fine linen, which stands for the righteous acts of the holy ones.? (Revelation 18:10; 19:2, 7, 8; 21:9) The destruction of Babylon the Great is part of the great tribulation. (Matthew 24:21; Revelation 7:14) So it could be reasoned that some of the bride class will survive the great tribulation as evidence of Jehovah?s approval and protection. (Zephaniah 2:3; compare Matthew 24:22.) If they are thus preserved on earth, they could remain here until God chooses to take them to heaven.

    However, the presentation in Revelation is not in strict sequential order. And it is not as though the small remnant of anointed ones will be needed to get the new world underway, for they have already trained millions of loyal Christians who will live forever on earth. Accordingly, God could take his anointed ones to heaven immediately after the destruction of Babylon the Great, setting the stage for "the marriage of the Lamb" to occur. All the holy ones could thus share with Christ in ?shepherding the nations with an iron rod? in the remainder of the great tribulation. (Revelation 2:26, 27; 19:11-21) If that is how God handles things, all the 144,000 would be with Jesus to ?rule as kings with the Christ for the entire one thousand years.??Revelation 20:4.

    It certainly is fine that God?s people are keenly interested in peering into how he will direct and reward his servants. (Compare 1 Peter 1:12.) This reflects their confidence that his will is going to be done. Though we cannot and should not be dogmatic about particulars, we can eagerly look forward to what will occur.

    [Footnotes]

    Compare: You May Survive Armageddon Into God?s New World, pages 61, 292, 351; "Your Will Be Done on Earth," page 347; The Watchtower of May 1, 1942, page 133. (All published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.)

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    M.J.

    Isn't the teaching of the WTS that at the end of this system, the 144K will get transferred to heaven to manage things from up there there with Christ?

    I was reading the book "The Harp of God" and I was blown away when I read this......"The Messianic class, head and body, will will not be subject to decay, sickness, or death. Even a perfect human being requires nourishment to sustain his organism; but the exalted church, THE MESSIAH, THE CHRIST, will need nothing in the way of food to replenish any powers.....(p. 298)

    Anyway, this probably doesn't answer your question but.....as you can see....without them in heaven there is no Christ or Messiah, just a little ole ineffective head up there in heaven......good grief..

    michelle

  • heathen
    heathen

    What I find interesting is the WTBTS never points to any martyrs as being in the " anointed " and the part in revelation where it talks about the last of the saints dying by the axe for the witness they bear to jesus and then the 4winds of destruction are let loose . Good catch from blondie in that the WTBTS does not offer any doctrine but just opinions that really don't seem to be based on anything the bible says on the subject , why gee they even look at old testament prophets instead of looking at what it says in the new testament . What a load of bunk .

  • TheWord
    TheWord

    didn't the apostles die at the hands of their enemies?

    word up

  • Gordy
    Gordy
    Will some anointed Christians survive the "great tribulation" to live on earth in the new world before being taken to heaven?

    Didn't this change in 1995?

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    From what I understood the physical bodies will be instantly transformed into spiritual bodies the material body will not disolve into gases it will become spirit, much as angels in the past went through the reverse process and materialised eg at Sodom.

    Science talks of the full inter-convertibility between matter and energy.

    It will not be surprising if subsequently they flip flop freely between the two natures since both worlds belong to them, angelic and human.

    Have in mind that the JW concept of the 144 000 as a literal number is in gross error since they ripped it out of the totally symbolic context of the: 144 000 virginal male Jews. And who can believe that nearly two millenia of christianity could not produce enough worthy people to complete that number indeed many times over.
    Rutherford must have had a drink too many when he was thinking that one out. His mashed up alcoholic brain failed to see the obvious.

  • TheWord
    TheWord

    If a body dies, does it not decompose? Who puts it back together again when it is resurrected? I think there is too much thinking into this. Where does it say that humans become spirits in the bible?

    word up

  • heathen
    heathen

    I think the concept of humans becoming angels is something that people that believe in the rapture came up with . The bible is kinda confusing , on one hand the apostles and first century christians did have the hope of co rulership with christ in the millenial reign but there was also the promise of eternal life on earth . Most religionists don't seem to grasp the concept that the earth will be made a paradise where humans will spend the hereafter eating from the trees of life . People do not ascend to heaven but heaven descends on earth .The city of new jerusalem lands on earth at some time during the great tribulation where the great crowd is saved by entering it then after the big A battle the anointed are resurrected and they gain enterance to the city by the pearl gates with the names of the 12 tribes written on them . That's the first resurrection , the second resurrection happens after the thousand year millenial reign and the devil is let loose from the abyss and all those resurrected then are on earth as humans to pass a final test and then there is the second death for those that fail of which there is no resurrection .

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