The "Kingdom of God", Perhaps An Ear...

by MDS 5 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • MDS
    MDS

    The "Kingdom of God," Perhaps An Earthly Kingdom?

    Daniel 7:21, 22

    says this:

    "I kept on beholding when that very horn made war upon the holy ones, and it was prevailing against them, and judgment itself was given in favor of the holy ones of Supreme One, and the definite time arrived that the holy ones took possession of the kingdom itself."

    Verses 25-27 of Chapter 7 says:

    "And he will speak even words against the Most High, and he will harass continually the holy ones themselves of the Supreme One. And he will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, and times and half a time. And the Court itself proceeded to sit, and his own rulership they finally took away, in order to annilihate [him] and to destroy him totally.

    "And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One. Their kingdom is an indefinitely lasting kingdom, and all the rulerships will serve and obey even them."

    Also, Daniel 12:7 says:

    "And I began to hear the man clothed with the linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he proceeded to raise his right [hand] to the heavens and to swear by the One who is alive for time indefinite: "It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and a half. And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish."

    The WTS contends that the situational "harrassment of the holy ones" actually occurred some years ago, yes, between the years of 1914-1918.

    But does this make sense?

    Further, doesn't the above context absolutely show that:

    (a) the kingdom's full establishment will be a future event, (Or, something that has not occurred yet thus far.)

    and

    (b) The kingdom Government itself, will be an EARTHLY Government, with the Governmental Seat of this Kingdom finding itself being situated right here upon the earth? Doesn't the context indicate that?

    In other words, the "Holy Ones of the Supreme One" establish their own "government" right here upon the earth, without anyone needing to go to heaven. No one goes to heaven, but the Kingdom and the "holy ones" of the Supreme One, establish the "Kingdom of God" right here upon the earth. Doesn't the above contect show this?

    Actually, according to the above verses, the "Kingdom Government of God," is established right here upon the earth just after the "harrassing" period of the "Small Horn." And clearly, there is no mention of a long drawn out, very much extended period of time between the "harrassing" of the Holy Ones of the Supreme One, and the time God ordains they come into possession of the "kingdom of God." -- See Daniel 7:18.

    But, according to the WTS, it has been more than 87 years since 1914, since that time the "harrassment" of the holy ones started... some 87 years?

    Where do the scriptures indicate there would be some 87 years or shall we say, an approaching 100-year period between the "war" of the "holy ones" and the "definite time for the holy ones to come into possession of the Kingdom of God"? Why would there be close to a 100 years between both events? Why would such time be alloted between the "harrassment" period of the "holy ones" and the time they take possession of the "kingdom" everlastingly? Where do the scriptures indicate this 86-year plus period of time before coming into the "kingdom" for the "holy ones of the Supreme One"?

    Daniel 7:21 shows that the "horn" makes "war" upon the "holy ones of the Supreme One." But, actually, have we seen this "war" upon these ones? Have we visualized an actual "war" upon the "holy ones" of the Supreme One?

    Obviously, according to Daniel's account, the "holy ones" of the Supreme One, did NOT come under attack between 1914-1918, because this would have meant the "kingdom of God" would have started right after that, upon earth. And we know, this did not happen at all.

    Thus based upon the above information, the doctrine of 1914 as taught and understood by JWs & WTS today, cannot be considered correct in any form or fashion. No earthly "Kingdom of God," has been established since the designated years of 1914-1918, the time when the "holy ones of the Supreme One" were supposed to be "trampled" upon and "harrassed" by God's permission. It has now been too many years passed to claim such has happened.

    Thus, this "harrassment" period of 3 1/2 years or 42 months, must be a future event. Also, the establishment of God's Kingdom upon earth too, it must be a future event as well. This 3 1/2 year period of time is mentioned several times in the Bible as being a most momentous time in scripture and Bible prophecy for God's People. Big changes occur after this period of time has occurred, where God has "given authority" for the surrounding "nations" to "act" against God's people in "war." -- Revelation 11:2; 12:6, 14; 13:5

    The "kingdom of God" itself thus, finds its membership originating upon the earth. Yes, an earthly government established right here upon earth, as the Royal Government is one that is "cut out" of a earthly "mountain." "Cut out", not with human hands, but with the hands of God, out of an EARTHLY MOUNTAIN, one that is upon this earth today. What is cut out, is at first a small "stone." A small "stone" cut out by God, of God-Selected Individuals, first grouped together as a small congregation or "Stone." These things are done, as the prophet says,

    "...Not by military force, nor by power, but by my spirit, Jehovah of Armies has said...For who has despised the day of small things?..." -- Zechariah 4:6, 10

    A small "stone" at first. But later growing, and growing more in size,into finally becoming "A Large Mountain" itself. So large a "stone" that it is "filling" the entire earth in size. And also with membership thereof possessing the "true knowledge of God," that makes finally, "true knowledge abundant" in all of the earth, as Daniel 12:4 says it would become.

    A "stone" that once reaching its full size, with the backing of God Jehovah, is capable of pulverizing all existing governments pictured by the visioned Statute, particularly the "feet" of the Statute, the "feet" of "molded clay mixed with iron", just as Daniel 2nd chapter shows.

    Daniel 2:34, 35, 44, 45 says this:

    "You kept on looking until a stone was cut out not by hands, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and of molded clay and crushed them. At that time the iron, the molded clay, the copper, the silver and the gold were, all together, crushed and became like the chaff from the summer threshing floor, and the wind carried them away so that no trace at all was found of them. And as for the stone that struck the image, it became a large mountain and filled the whole earth."

    "And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite; forasmuch as you beheld that out of the mountain a stone was cut not by hands, and that it crushed the iron, the copper, the molded clay, the silver and the gold. The Grand God himself has made known to the king what is to occur after this. And the dream is reliable, and the interpretation of it is trustworthy."

    He is telling his word to Jacob, His regulations and his judicial decisions to Israel. He has not done that way to any other nation; And as for his judicial decisions, they have not known them." -- Psalms 147:19, 20

    MDS

  • logical
    logical

    Thats your opinion Don.

    Thats your interpretation... doesnt mean its right.

    Is this the kingdom YOU rule? You are king, right? Since Pentecost 2001?

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    May you have peace!

    Indeed, although that kingdom will 'come down out of heaven' and its kings will 'rule UPON the earth'... there is nothing 'earthly' about it. For my Lord said: "My kingdom... is NO part of this world."

    It is a SPIRITUAL kingdom, in which flesh... with its blood... cannot reside. It's residents are 'celestial'... and not 'terrestrial'. The earth itself, is 'terrestrial'. Thus, like Eden... the kingdom of God will be 'heaven... ON earth'.

    Again, I bid you peace...

    A slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • wondering alot
    wondering alot

    Although the direct kingdom that Jesus is a part of undoudtedly is heavenly. Must that apply to everyone?

    Jesus says this:

    But I tell YOU that many from eastern parts and western parts will come and recline at the table with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens; (Matthew 8:11)

    The patriarchs died years before Jesus arrived on the earth. They would not qualify for heavenly residence since they could not put faith in his sacrifice that had not yet occurred. Why would Jesus refer to the kingdom of the heavens as a place where the notable patriarchs would reside in a symbolic sense? Was he trying to confuse everyone? It seems that all scripture pertaining to a resurrection that the faithful patriarchs expected was not heavenly but earthly. Could not the kingdom of God be understood as in the sense as being part of his arrangement. That would be resurrected on earth not in heaven.

    The simplest answer would be easier for all to understand: we live on earth, we die here and we have the hope of being resurrected here.

  • kes152
    kes152

    patriarchs on earth?

    read Hebrews 11:16 but, in the Kingdom Interlinear of the Greek Scriptures. It will show you that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob were all seeking a better place, a heavenly (one).

    You say they didn't know Christ???

    Read Hebrews 11:26
    1 Peter 1:11

    searching what time or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was IN THEM did point unto, when it
    testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glories that should follow them.

  • wondering alot
    wondering alot

    True there are points in the scriptures that could point to the traditional Christian notion that the faithful go to heaven, or at least some do.
    Don't you feel that it seems strange that a loving creator would but man on the earth to fill and cultivate it; and when things went wrong say "Forget the earth thing I started, I want all you people that I think are good enough to come up here with me. These spirit creatures I have up here just can't do their job. And by the way, forget about all that flesh and blood stuff, good food, fulfilling work, families, sex, sun and rain, etc."
    I don't buy it. Why does Jesus need faulty humans to help him in heaven? You might say they'll were tested and made perfect. Quite a risk for live eternal, Satan must have looked petty good at one time too.
    There are too many other scriptures that simply continue the Jewish concept of a resurection back to a paradise earth apart from fleshly imperfection. I think we could live in an earth made perfect by a heavenly government yet not have to reside in the spiritual heavenly realm.
    Guess we'll all some day find out. Hope no one will be disappointed.

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