Jesus die about 30 CE

by peacefulpete 8 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    There is a geat amount of confusion among early Christian trdaition as to when Jesus died, some have said about 130 different opinions were held. The NT doesn't help pin it down as the dating in Luke doesn't work. Anyway the tradition that eventually won out was that jesus was baptised about 29/30 and killed 1-3 years later.

    On another site someone speculated that it was Jewish tradition that indirectly helped establish this timeline. There seems to have been some significance to the year 30CE and the age of a hated prophet Balaam. The Sanhedrin was relocated to the marketplace because the temple had been damaged in an earthquake in 29/30 according to Yoma 39.

    Shabb. 15a reads: "One hundred and eighty years before the destruction of the Temple
    the wicked state spread over Israel. Eighty years before the
    destruction of the Temple uncleanness was imposed in respect of the
    country of heathens and glassware. Forty years before the
    destruction of the Temple the Sanhedrin went into exile and took its seat in the trade Halls."

    The Talmud (b Sanh 106b) gives the following indication concerning the age of a heretic at his death.

    A certain heretic said to R. Hanina:

    Have you ever heard how old Balaam was?

    He replied:

    There is nothing written about it. But from what is written

    Men of blood and deceit shall not live out half their days [Ps. 55:23]

    He must have been thirty-three or thirty-four years old.

    He said,

    You have answered me well. I have seen the chronicle of Balaam, and therein is written:

    Balaam, the lame, was thirty-three years old when Pinhas the Robber killed him.

    - Babylon Talmud, Sanh. 106b, quoted in Travers R. Herford,

    _Christianity in Talmud and Midrash_ 1903, I, a; pg 72, item 15.

    Tractate Yoma

    Chapter IV

    During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot [`For the Lord'] did not come up in
    the right hand; nor did the crimson-coloured strap
    become white; nor did the westernmost light [of the
    Menorah] shine; and the doors of the Hekal [Sanctuary]
    would open by themselves, until R. Johanan b. Zakkai
    rebuked them, saying: Hekal, Hekal, why wilt thou be
    the alarmer thyself? [meaning: predict thy own
    destruction] I know about thee that thou wilt be
    destroyed, for Zechariah ben Ido has already
    prophesied concerning thee: Open thy doors, O Lebanon,
    that the fire may devour thy cedars."

    Is it possible then that the events of 29/30, coupled with the recurrence of the number "40" in Jewish mythology, helped fix the date for the Jesus baptism and death?

  • zen nudist
    zen nudist

    simpler--- Jesus was not a real person

    www.jesusneverexisted.com

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    zen nudist...as strange as it sounds, that is beside the point. I was wondering why the date was largely fixed when it was. The political and religious environment produced these traditions, but just what influences shaped this one detail?

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Not much to add, but it's interesting in view of the Patristic traditions which make Jesus' death the cause of the fall of Jerusalem (and so the beginning of the end, which would well fit into a 40-years pattern); cf. the similar treatment of James' death in Josephus-Hegesippus.

    On the other hand, the (perhaps later) Talmudic traditions about Jesus situate him much earlier, under the Hasmoneans (100-80 BC). Perhaps to avoid the above connection, but the story of Qumran's Master of Righteousness which belong to this period may be another explanation.

    The question of Jesus' age at death is a different one, but in this respect the ramblings about Balaam in bSanhedrin are quite illuminating: in a Jewish perspective Jesus' fate is the epitome of divine curse (cf. Galatians).

    Thanks for those interesting documents.

  • Cygnus
    Cygnus

    Off topic: peacefulpete and narkossis I always enjoy reading your posts. :)

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    John 2:20 precisely dates the first year of Jesus' ministry to A.D. 28-29 (consistent with the later dominant view), but 8:57 suggests Jesus was in his forties, suggesting a birthdate as early as 20-15 B.C. Papias (c. A.D. 135) and Irenaeus (c. 185) similarly held that Jesus was approaching fifty when he died, but the latter places his death in the reign of Claudius Caeser (who became emperor in A.D. 41), though he was not a contemporary with Pontius Pilate. Victorinus, on the basis of Papias, has Jesus born in A.D. 9, baptised in A.D. 46, and crucified in A.D. 58 (the reign of Nero). Luke 3:1-2, 28 has Jesus at around 30 years of age during the first year of his ministry which he precisely dates to A.D. 28-29, indicating a birthdate around 1 BC. But the mention of the census of Quirinius in 2:1-2 places Jesus' birth near A.D. 6, which would then place the crucifixion at age 30 to around A.D. 36. The tradition about John the Baptist dying before Jesus would also, if Josephus was right, point to a date of the crucifixion after A.D. 36. Matthew, on the other hand, requires Jesus' birth to be before 4 B.C. Justin Martyr places Jesus' birth 150 years before A.D. 147 (1 Apology 1:46 ), or around 4 B.C. (in a rounded figure) but he also dates the crucifixion to the time Herod replaced Archelaus as "king of the Jews", which reflects a hopelesly confused concept of pre-70 Judean history.

  • scholar
    scholar

    Leolaia

    You are hopelessly confused as to the date of the impalemeny of our Lord. WT scholars competent in chronology have scripturally shwon that Jesus died on Nisan 14 33 A.D. It seems that scholars have found the chronology of our Lord problematic but 33 A.D appears to be the best candidate.

    scholar

    BA MA Studies in Religion

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    I was not proposing any date of my own. I was only pointing out the confusion in early Christian writings, which had the birth at the time of Quirinius' census (Luke), or King Herod the Great (Matthew), the death near the time Herod replaced Archaelaus (Justin Martyr), or in Claudius' reign (Irenaeus), or in Nero's reign (Victorinius), or with Jesus dying close to his fifties (Irenaeus).

  • toreador
    toreador

    Why is there such a problem figuring out when Jesus was born if he was the savior of the world? Wouldn't you think that date would be set in stone?

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