What in Ray Franz books...

by Brummie 9 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Brummie

    ...really made a huge impact on you?

    One thing that gutted me as a JW was the realisation that they (the GB) had written the articles telling us how humble they were, that they were the "Ruth class" or simply put "best class" etc, all the good people in the Bible represented them, how humble is that? It suddenly dawned on me after years of not realising it, how arrogant my leaders were.

    This is only one thing out of hundreds that gutted me when I read CofC, if you were to name or highlight just one thing out of Rays books that made you realise, what would it be?

  • kwintestal

    What got me was how the GB made thier decisions on policy changes.

    Very much like a corporation/union/stockholder meeting, where by-law change needs 2/3 majority vote and so on.

    I had always thought that the GB would have been unanimous in their decisions, since they were all being "directed" by the same God. Does God make his decisions on a 2/3 majority vote?

    The power struggles that he mentioned also struck me as odd and not the least bit humble as these men had always been protrayed.


  • gumby

    Hi Brummie....ya bastard!

    if you were to name or highlight just one thing out of Rays books that made you realise, what would it be?

    This was a hard one for me as I cannot recall what particular point I read when it all hit me. It culminated, but something hit me. I remember the point on blood and the point he used with Jesus picking food with his followers on the sabbath and how Jesus used the scripture..." I want mercy, not sacrafice". He showed how the society made the "symbol" for life.....greater than life itself, and that isn't how Gods laws worked.

    I wish to this day I had kept a daily diary of my exit and how I progressively left the cult....it would have been an intresting read.


  • Narkissos

    I only read Crisis of Conscience, when I was already out.

    I guess what I most loved was Ray's reflections on "sincerity". He had a very honest, humble, clearminded approach of the way GB members (including himself or uncle Freddie) handled their doubts, questions, and beliefs at the same time. They were no saints nor completely cynical people. Nothing's simple. This made me think more deeply about my own past and present sincerity in belief and in life generally.

    I think this quality of deep (and costly) honesty makes it an absolutely great book, besides the unique information he gives on the organization.

  • gumby

    OK....Kwin just reminded me.

    It was the "Malawi/Mexico" incidents with two sets of standards. Also, the military policy change in which men served time in prison as they could not perform alternative service.....untill the 2/3 majority vote changed it to being acceptable. The brownosing, spineless, manner in which these GB meetings were held was also an eyeopener.


  • Brummie

    Hiya gumboil ;) Yes the Malawi incident made me totally sick as a JW reading Rays insight on it, I remember it happening in the 70s as a kid, I cried as a kid but as an adult reading rays book I was worse. Scary stuff.

    Yes his sincerity won me over, I had 30 years a WT slave but mistook the remorse for bitterness so Rays book was refreshing.

    Kwin, that also had a big inpact on a reg pioneer who saw the film Witnesses of Jah were Ray comments on it. A gut kicker huh.



  • kwintestal
    that also had a big inpact on a reg pioneer who saw the film Witnesses of Jah were Ray comments on it. A gut kicker huh.

    I think that it confirmed concerns that I already had in regard to how the WTS was being directed.

    There's a chain of events. WTS says something. WTS is wrong. WTS is held to account for it and say that they are imperfect men and make mistakes. WTS expects everything to be OK and everyone to forget.

    So I asked a couple of elders when they were sheparding me how the WTS can be wrong if they're directed by God.

    They say the usual BS...new light...blah...blah...blah...imperfect men...blah...blah...blah...

    You know the drill.

    So I asked...When was the last time you went to an assembly, got a book and they said from the platform, "Here's a book for you provided by imperfect men"? It will never happen. That book is "From Jehovah God."

    Anyway...back to what I was getting at...12 men, all directed by "God's spirit", write books "from God", give books to followers...information is WRONG...was it directed by "God's spirit" or by a 2/3 majority vote?


  • Midget-Sasquatch

    There were already alot of things I didn't believe, and I had pretty much decided jws were just another man-made religion by the time I read CoC. Up till then, I could always excuse and make excuses for the GB. I thought they were delusional, but at least sincere and actually caring of others in a nutty kind of way. But after reading about the double standard with Mexico and Malawi, I was literally sick. I then saw most of the GB members as the callous power mongers, that they are.

  • Corvin

    Yes, it was the Malawi vs Mexico issue and the military issue. How damn hypocritical can the GB be?

    It was also the now infamous letter the GB wrote to all the Circuit and District Overseers regarding apostates, in which it states that one does not have to be spreading apostate viewpoints to be labeled an apostate, but that even having a belief or thought of your own, that so much as contradicts the WTBTS, is grounds for disfellowshipping for apostasy. Rotten, rotten, rotten, all of them. For me that was my moment of realization. I understood that I could never go back and neither could I allow my kids to be raised that way any longer. It must be something akin to a young gay person consciously realizing and accepting he is gay for the first time. I was absolutely proud to be "out" of the apostate closet.


  • LittleToe

    I intentionally didn't read any "apostate" books until after I left the JW's. I've never been able to lie, so I wanted to be able to deny such honestly.

    I think the deepest impression on me was that they were just Board members of an organisation, with nothing inately spiritual about the decisions they made.

    The fact that they made mistakes, were proud, used political shenanigans to get their own way at meetings, cared more about public image than the lives of those they lead, etc., just added weight to the picture of them being very human, albeit power-hungry, men.

    It gave me the answer to the question my father-in-law asked me regarding motive, although it was too late to send it to him. They don't need money, as their every bodily comfort is taken care of. The don't need sex, drugs and rock'n'roll, as they are likely too decrepit to enjoy such things. They don't need time, as time is fast running out for them and they have filled their own time as well as everyone else's with a frenzy of activity. However the ability to make 6,000,000 people jump like a marionette on a string, to your every whim - what a power trip!

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