Pastor Russell and 1914

by Kenneson 61 Replies latest jw friends

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  RR

  I'm very well aware of the promulgations Russell made for 1878 including that Christ had been exercising his kingly power since that date and that the resurrection had then begun. Also, that the Babylon of Revelation had fallen that year. But I fail to see where he predicted anything for Israel in that year.

  Russell didn't "predict" anything for 1878, since there was no Watch Tower in that year. But during his years with Nelson Barbour and others he did promulgate that year with Israel.

  This brings us to the beginning of the World to come, which is to be subjected, as we have already seen, to Christ and His Bride glorified together. The world to come is not, as some suppose, "one eternal age," but is also divided into

  ages, the first of which seems to be the one thousand year? reign. (Revelation 20). Paul gives the object of the exaltation of the church to the heavenly places: "That in the ages [aions] to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace." The reign of Christ is what the world needs. It is the day for which Creation groans. As a glimmering ray of the day of day, we would call the reader?s attention to the fact, which, may be noticed more fully hereafter, that the door has been legally opened by the Anglo-Turkish treaty of 1878, for the return of the suspended nation of Israel to their own land. This is one of the signs of returning to them according to the statements of Jesus and Paul. The fig tree is putting forth its leaves, and we know that summer is near. There is to be a "restitution of all things" after Jesus returns, and hence in the world to come. (Acts 3:19-21). The Day Dawn - 1881

  There are writings of Pastor Russell, but too lengthy to post here. No one quote is good, you need to read the whole article:

  1. Israel Double - A Fact and a Theory - Overland Monthly page 73
  2. The Restoration of Israel - Studies in the Scriptures Volume 3, Chaqpter 8
  3. THE GLORY THAT EXCELLETH - Watch Tower May 15, 1892
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  link

  RR You are being very disingenuous when you say there is only one line of evidence pointing to 586/87. You are far too intelligent not to realise this and therefore it detracts from the other points that you make.

  You may well say that the numerous pointers to 586/87 are unsubstantiated as hard evidence cannot be provided to prove their accuracy ? everyone would grant you that point. However each of the differing lines that are provided are completely independent of each other yet still point to the same thing. There are no similar lines to support the 607 date, so to say these are still to be discovered takes a little swallowing. (Your post of 02.22 of 26 Sept refers.)

  Regards

  link
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  RR

  When it comes to man and the Bible, I have to accept the Bible and the 607 date.
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  shotgun

  Didn't a man come up with the 607 date, or can you find it in the bible?

  When it comes to man and the Bible, I have to accept the Bible and the 607 date.
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  Kenneson

  R.R.,

  In the articles you mention, what Russell has done is look back upon an event that already occurred in 1878 (namely the Berlin Conference) and said that it fulfilled some Biblical passages. I guess you can call that promulgation alright. But, if you read further on in the Overland Monthly he made a PREDICTION. He's not looking back at what has already happened (like in 1878). I would call that prophecy. "From an entirely different line of prophecy we will later show that according to the Scriptures Israel is to be rehabilitated as a nation in the near future--about the year 1915...The proof that Israel's disfavor will completely terminate in A.D. 1915 and thenceforth their national polity be re-established, we leave for a future article." Did his prophecy which he promises to offer PROOF in another article come to pass in 1915?
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  outbutnotdown

  RR,

  I don't know what to say, without it seeming to be rude. It is not intended to be, but I thought that most people that leave JWism stay away from other close-minded, delusional, holier than thou horsesh*t as well. Kenneson makes a good point that Russell looked back and made 1878 the year that the Bible Students use as their pivotal year. How handy is that? I could say that 2001 (World Trade Centre incidents) was the beginning of the new age.... yadda yadda yadda... I am not even going to make up any phoney stuff at the risk of others believing it, for I would feel responsible for closing peoples' minds.

  What if there is no God outside of us? What if he has no plan for us? IMO, God is either so controlling that we are simply puppets of his, or that he is so intelligent that he has predicted all of history's events or that he is neither and that we create or own world, individually and collectively. For you to suggest that God came to you while you were a JW and told you to be a Bible Student, at the risk of sounding rude, is just delusional. It's like the Mormons who thought that their church was getting a little off the right path, so thay made a new religion. Instead of "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints", they called themselves "The Re-Organized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints".

  That's like one schizophrenic saying to another, "I'm better than you because I have more personalities than you." No offense to schizophrenics, but I think you get the point, RR.

  Brad
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  johnny cip

  if i recall correctly did not russell except to be raptured in 1878 and 1881 and 1905 and 1912 aND 1914 ETC. RR ; don't make me look up this stuff. and he used bible verses to prove it etc. always calling it bible truth... right maybe you have micro film from the pittsburg newspaper of easter sunday 1881 were russell called the press to take pictures of him going to heaven, just like yo0u have microfilm of all the golden age mag's. why don't you post some of that 1881 easter sunday stuff for us to laugh at. john
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  RR

  Shotgun:

  Didn't a man come up with the 607 date, or can you find it in the bible?

  A man found it in the Scriptures. The year Jesus was born is not written in scripture, but we know based on prophecy when it was. There are no LITERAL dates mentioned in scriptures, but science and history has given us when those dates were.

  From an entirely different line of prophecy we will later show that according to the Scriptures Israel is to be rehabilitated as a nation in the near future--about the year 1915...The proof that Israel's disfavor will completely terminate in A.D. 1915 and thenceforth their national polity be re-established, we leave for a future article." Did his prophecy which he promises to offer PROOF in another article come to pass in 1915?

  Ken, that's the miscenception that many have, they say Pastor Russell predicted many of his dates, most of those dates were already passed. He simply looked at scripture and history and saw when they were fulfilled.

  As to 1915, he said "about the year 1915". he was off, it was 1917 that allowed Jews to go back and possess the land. He expected EVERYTHING to happen by 1915, it didn't happen, only partially. He never claimed to be a prophet, and admitted to be short sighted in his view of events.

  if i recall correctly did not russell except to be raptured in 1878 and 1881 and 1905 and 1912 aND 1914 ETC. RR ; don't make me look up this stuff. and he used bible verses to prove it etc.

  Then I can't help you John, you made the claim, you prove it.

  right maybe you have micro film from the pittsburg newspaper of easter sunday 1881 were russell called the press to take pictures of him going to heaven, just like yo0u have microfilm of all the golden age mag's. why don't you post some of that 1881 easter sunday stuff for us to laugh at.

  Sorry John, it NEVER happened. Again, you make the claim, you prove it. RR
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  outbutnotdown

  RR,
  I find it odd that two religions can be formed, basically from the same man..... at least I know JW's think that Russell started theirs.... you seem to be saying so also. Doesn't it make you sit back and think for a moment....... that you are basically saying that Russell started them both, but JW's misinterpreted everything that he said and you are fully understanding it?

  What's that saying about the teapot and kettle? I personally think my brother and sisters and I all have some oddness about us because of our teachers.... our parents..... it would not be very believable to anyone here if I said that I learned all the right things and they learned all the bad things from them, would it.

  I guess that's why I stay away from structured religion....... too many absolutes and harsh judgements.

  B.

  Brad
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  RR

  RR,
  I find it odd that two religions can be formed, basically from the same man..... at least I know JW's think that Russell started theirs.... you seem to be saying so also. Doesn't it make you sit back and think for a moment....... that you are basically saying that Russell started them both, but JW's misinterpreted everything that he said and you are fully understanding it?

  I NEVER said that Pastor Russell started the Witnesses, I have always denied it. I say Rutherfod started the Witnesses.

  RR