"Take, eat. This is [estin] my body."

by Earnest 4 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Earnest

  Apart from the references in the Gospels to the last supper (Matthew 26:26; Mark 14:22;Luke 22:19) where the loaf is [estin] Christ's body, there is also the remarkable passage in John 6:54-56 :

  He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day; for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him.

  Now we know that the NWT translates Matthew 26:26 as "...this means my body" and explains in the footnote "Lit., "is", in the sense of signifying, importing, representing. But clearly many of his followers at the time considered it literally and "went off to the things behind and would no longer walk with him. (John 6:66). I was reminded about this by a friend on the forum who partook of the bread and wine while still a JW.

  I understand the theological objections to having these verses really mean that when eating the bread you are eating Christ's body, that it could be inferred that the sacrifice is made over and over again, and also that which looks like bread, smells like bread, tastes like bread...is most likely going to be bread and not human flesh. But the language Jesus used is remarkable. The word used for "He that feeds [on my flesh]..." is trogon which has the sense of "chewing, gnawing, nibbling, or munching." The word smacks of herbivorous animals which have to perpetually chew their food. There were other words Jesus could have used but the fact that he chose this word suggests it is his body you are eating when you share in the eucharist.

  What do you think ?

  Earnest
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  shamus

  I don't believe in the bible anymore so I don't read into that Jesus character.... I don't symbolically or otherwise eat flesh or blood....

  Those who do have 'everlasting live'.... he lied though. There are all sorts of other conditions on that.

  My question is why is 'jesus' so blatantly misleading you and others with that scripture? Sorry... that doesn't sound like any messiah to me.... if he wanted something done you think he would have had the brains to put it in writing... and his 'father' who wanted his life record to be preserved should have done one hellova lot better a job at writing it down.

  In other words... well, you fill in the blank. I am better at those kinds of riddles than this 'messiah', and am stupider, not as perfect, and a total moron.

  I could be wrong though.... if I am, I have some serious questions of management styles of his father.
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  Narkissos

  Cf. Siracides 24:19ff (Wisdom speaking):

  Come to me, you who desire me,
  and eat your fill of my fruits.
  For the memory of me is sweeter than honey,
  and the possession of me sweeter than the honeycomb.
  Those who eat (esthiontes) of me will hunger for more,
  and those who drink (pinontes) of me will thirst for more.
  Whoever obeys me will not be put to shame,
  and those who work with me will not sin.

  Btw, you say:

  There were other words Jesus could have used but the fact that he chose this word suggests it is his body you are eating when you share in the eucharist.

  Was Jesus speaking Greek?
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  peacefulpete

  I know we had an indepth discussion about this before but I"m too lazy to try to find it. Anyway Narkissos has posted an example of intertestimal language that served as bridge between cultural imagery. Mithraists of course had their sacrement meal of wine (or water) and bread symbolic of eating and uniting with the godman. Paul says in 1 Cor he had not received the eucharist tradition from other Christians but had himself received it thru 'vision or inspiration' from "the Lord". Is seems quite coincidental that Paul hailed from Tarsus a major center of Mithraism. In other words he was the man who introduced a sacrement meal with it's symbolism as a bit of syncretism of the Jewish with the Persian/Roman. The meal scene in Luke is a later addition (manuscript evidence suggests) to somewhat legitimize Paul's cannibalistic symbolism being adopted. Interestingly the Diadache has a Christian holy meal that included "holy wine of David" and bread that represented" the life and knowlwedge made known to us by Jesus". More in keeping with Narkissos' quote. IOW the Pauline sacrement eucharist was adopted slowly and as part of the overall inclusion of more and more mystery cult traditions and stories.

  Of course some have argued that the mystery elements were original and the cult merely went thru a Jewish filter. Interesting but another topic.
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  Narkissos

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/69567/1.ashx