God & Satan

by nowuask 7 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • nowuask
    nowuask

    Why did God cast Satan back to the earth? (re12:12) Should he have not destroyed him at this point, saving humans? He will at one point. (Re 20:7-10) God even said that he "regret I have made them", this would include the angles also (ge6:7).

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    You always will have evil as long as you have good. Jehovah,,the devil,,demons they are myths,,the product of the human imagination. They don't exisit except in story books..

  • Nosferatu
    Nosferatu
    Why did God cast Satan back to the earth

    This never made sense to me. Wasn't Satan always on earth? Who the hell was talking to Eve? Who told Jesus to turn a rock into a loaf of bread?

    Should he have not destroyed him at this point, saving humans?

    Of course not! There needs to be the carrot (paradise erf) dangled in front of us, so we can be there when it happens. Until then, God decided to be a bastard, and put us to the test.

    God even said that he "regret I have made them",

    At least God is blaming himself. He's the one who gave us the flaw to make us wanna eat from that forbidden tree. He messed up, and he has nobody but himself to blame.

  • gold_morning
    gold_morning

    Now,

    I don't even know if I am wasting my time posting this, but here it goes.

    I think what ever went on in heaven is huge... much bigger between these forces than we can possible imagine. I believe it is a real war....a spiritual war of great magnitude and we are caught up in the cross fire. Somehow....satan got ahold of the world and all that was in it. That is why it says that the world and all in it belong to the evil one. He gained control....took over and owned, not just the world but us too as we are in it.

    He also set out to destroy what God had made and did an awesome job of it. We were made in God's image and God is spirit. When he made the earth, the things he made a spirit could not enjoy so he housed life (spirit) in awesome bodies that were made to last. We have God's spirit or life in us. So it is not our eyes that see... but our souls see thru our eyes.... it is not our ears that hear, but our soul hears thru our ears. Satan destroyed those bodies. If we don't get sick and die, the eventuality is that it will get old and die. But God said.....alright... you destroyed what I created and you can make the body die, but the spirit belongs to me.

    God loved us long before we loved him. He bought back what satan got control of. The price was steep. I look at it this way. Say you were selling a beautiful table and I wanted it and asked what is the price, and you quoted me something ridiculous. But I wanted that table so badly, I chose to buy it no matter what. That is what happend. Jesus asked satan what is the price for their souls. Satan quoted him a very high price.... his life. Jesus wanted us so badly he chose to pay that price. That is what it means when it says we are saved by grace and it is a gift from God. It is like being on an aution block and we are allowed to be purchaced by Jesus. That is why there is no amount of works we can do that is greater than what Jesus already did. It never was a matter of what we can do to make it... but rather what God did for us. Jesus could have avoided paying such a price and grabed the out if he worshiped this god satan that took over. Satan offered him the kingdoms of the world and those in it,But he opted not to do that and pay that price.

    Things that happen here are not tests from God. These things that happen here are from being part of what is owned by satan. That is why James 1:13-17 says that God does not tempt anyone but it is the evil one that tempts us. That every good and perfect gift is from God. The bad that happens to us becomes a test and it is our choice to see thru that. Do we continue to trust in HIM or do we blame him instead.

    Thinking that hardships, hurt, suffering and pain comes from God is just what satan wants us to think. He is the great deceiver.

    I remember being angry at God years ago. I believed in HIM, but was not sure I liked him. It wasn't until I got to know him that I began to understand the whole picture better. None of us on this side will ever understand a realm we don't live in.....but I know that once we are before HIM the clouded glass we see thru now will be clear.

    Didn't want to sound preachy.....and I bet I will get some flack...but the post did ask what we think,so for all it is worth it is how I look at it.

    Hope it just may be another way of seeing the picture.

    agape love, Gold

  • El blanko
    El blanko
    Didn't want to sound preachy.....and I bet I will get some flack...but the post did ask what we think,so for all it is worth it is how I look at it.

    It's ok to express your way of viewing events. Hello by the way!

    I suspect that 99% of people here will already have that version of events imprinted on their minds.

  • Carmel
    Carmel

    gold_moring, my friend, why is Jesus's life such a high price if by magic He pops back to life like nothing happened? That's no sacrafice, unless life in this plane if existance is more important than anything else. so what did he give up? nada, squat! Gotta think up another scenario if you want to convince me..

    carmel of the "sacrafice is cool, if it's really a sacrafice" class

  • bebu
    bebu

    Carmel, surely being tortured to death is a sacrifice. If Jesus lives again, that fact alone does not nullify that a sacrifice took place.

    But I'll stick to the topic of this thread.

    I have come to think that there is another issue involved with God not just destroying Satan et al and starting over. That is, no matter how many times God made any rational being, spiritual/human, there would always be the risk of rebellion. Satan fell on his own, not tempted (far as we know). Mankind was tempted to fall. What kind of guarantee could ever be given for creation to never fall?

    I think it is for this reason the Spirit of God indwelling us is essential. If we are given the Spirit of Christ to dwell within us, and we share in the divine nature, then Christ is able to save forever those who put their faith in him, for 1) Christ has conquored sin and death and 2) it is thru being united with Christ spiritually that we share in that victory.

    The JW idea of earthly paradise, and everyone concerned about making even one false step, is a reflection of how useless anything less could be. That world might last 1 hour and then it would be barren (the 'princes' probably getting destroyed first). God didn't save anything after all, if such was the arrangement.

    Anyway, here are some Biblical references (with highlights) to support this theory/theology. Notice how certain concepts like faith, spirit, life, eternal, all/anyone/whoever, child, born, repeated and woven together.

    bebu

    JN 1:10

    He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-- 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

    John 3:14

    Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

    JN 6:40

    For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

    JN 6:54

    Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him . 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.

    JN 10:27

    My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.

    JN 14:23

    Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him .

    AC 5:29

    Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men! 30 The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead--whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. 31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel. 32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

    RO 8:9

    You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

    RO 8:12

    Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation--but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear , but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

    1 Cor 8:6

    yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

    2 Cor 1:21

    Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

    2CO 5:1

    Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, 3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

    Gal 2:20

    I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me . The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

    HEB 7:23

    Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

    2PE 1:3

    His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

    1JN 4:13

    We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit .

    It is interesting to consider the union of Christ with his Bride in Revelation as well.

    In sum, as I see it: The life/unity of Christ with God (whatever that actually is) will be extended in a fashion so as to include the Church when the Spirit indwells someone by their faith in Christ. And this is an eternal salvation. The Spirit is essential not just for 144k people, but anyone who wants to live eternally.

  • Obviously Secret
    Obviously Secret

    Not trying to make Jesus seem less of a person but plenty of people suffered like him or even worse than him. Thought you might need a bigger impact than a person suffering to save every man and women and stuff. Shoot... I felt Jesus's pain sometimes, and I ain't saved the world lol.

    I know I know I should watch the passion of the christ. But I dunno people should prolly go to some of these third world countries and see somebody get into a fight... Or like what happens everyday see somebody get torchured because they defied a country. Shoot cut off your hands your tounge and your legs most of the time. I'd rather go through what Jesus went through than live all the rest of my life in shame WHILE going through all that stuff.

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