Creed

by ignorance is strength 6 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • ignorance is strength
    ignorance is strength

    Why do you think that JWs are so against putting all their beliefs down into a creed? Is it because they realised it would change so often?

    I always remembered in the DAs that they would criticise other Christian denominations for having creeds, but if you asked them their faith in a nutshell, would they be able to tell you? And remember how they always tell stories of a priest who didn't believe and someone told him to think "they believe" instead of "we believe." What I always found interesting about this story is, how could they prove it? I mean, what priest who still practised would spread a story like that, even if he didn't believe. I think its a fabrication, what d'you think?

  • itsallgoodnow
    itsallgoodnow

    I think most of those types of things are fabrications, including many of their testimonials.

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    The wtbts has never lied, has it ?

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Why does the Society act as if creeds are unbiblical when there are creeds in the NT?

    "Keep believing exactly what I preached to you, believing anything else will not lead to anything. In the first place, I taught you what I had been taught myself, namely, that Christ died for our sins, in accordance to the scriptures, that he was buried, and that he was raised to life on the third day, in accordance to the scriptures, that he appeared first to Cephas and secondly to the Twelve...This is what you all believe" (1 Corinthians 15:2-4, 11)
    "We believe that Jesus died and rose again, and that it will be the same for those who have died in Jesus" (1 Thessalonians 4:14).
    "The mystery of our religion is this: He was made visible in the flesh, attested by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed to the pagans, believed in by the world, taken up in glory" (1 Timothy 3:16).
    "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.... We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved " (Acts 8:37, 15:11).
  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    I didn't even remember the JW's dislike for the word "creed". Mild dislike perhaps, as for "Old and New Testament" which they replace with "Hebrew and Greek Scripture".

    A funny thing when you think how creed-centered they actually are.

    Looking for "creed" in the WT publications, I found two entertaining things:

    1. There is a recurring quotation from a 1965 newspaper. In the 15.10.1965 Watchtower it first appears this way:

    During the "Word of Truth" Assembly in Sacramento, California, the Sacramento Union admitted, in effect, that the Bible does contain the answer to present-day difficulties. In a July 9 editorial entitled "Witnesses of Godliness," the paper said of Jehovah?s witnesses: "In all their beliefs they are down-to-earth, completely sincere, fully wedded to belief in the Old Testament as well as the New, . . . Suffice it to say that if all the world lived by the [Bible] creed of the Jehovah Witnesses there would be an end of bloodshed and hatred, and love would reign as king." Could there be any greater recommendation for the Bible?

    The word "creed" has to be corrected by the addition of "[Bible]".

    Next, in the 8.1.1971 issue, no more "[Bible]" (but the correct possessive case):

    14 What group has truly obeyed God as ruler in this vital matter wherever they live on this earth? The Sacramento, California, Union commented editorially on July 9, 1965: "Suffice it to say that if all the world lived by the creed of the Jehovah?s Witnesses there would be an end of bloodshed and hatred, and love would reign as king."

    Next, in the Kingdom News # 27 (1979), no more date:

    "If all the world lived by the creed of the Jehovah?s Witnesses there would be an end of bloodshed and hatred and LOVE WOULD REIGN AS KING."?Sacramento "Union" (USA).

    Idem in the Kingdom News # 35 (1997).

    But in Awake! 4.22.2000, back to the "[Bible] creed"! -- although the title of the newspaper is lost:

    No wonder that a newspaper editorial once stated: "If all the world lived by the [Bible] creed of the [Jehovah?s] Witnesses there would be an end of bloodshed and hatred, and love would reign as king"!

    2. Interestingly, in Reasoning from Scriptures (1988) the word "creed" is denied within what is actually a 10-articles... creed:

    What beliefs of Jehovah?s Witnesses set them apart as different from other religions?

    (1) Bible: Jehovah?s Witnesses believe that the entire Bible is the inspired Word of God, and instead of adhering to a creed based on human tradition, they hold to the Bible as the standard for all their beliefs.

    (2) God: They worship Jehovah as the only true God and freely speak to others about him and his loving purposes toward mankind. Anyone who publicly witnesses about Jehovah is usually identified as belonging to the one group?"Jehovah?s Witnesses."

    (3) Jesus Christ: They believe, not that Jesus Christ is part of a Trinity, but that, as the Bible says, he is the Son of God, the first of God?s creations; that he had a prehuman existence and that his life was transferred from heaven to the womb of a virgin, Mary; that his perfect human life laid down in sacrifice makes possible salvation to eternal life for those who exercise faith; that Christ is actively ruling as King, with God-given authority over all the earth since 1914.

    (4) God?s Kingdom: They believe that God?s Kingdom is the only hope for mankind; that it is a real government; that it will soon destroy the present wicked system of things, including all human governments, and that it will produce a new system in which righteousness will prevail.

    (5) Heavenly life: They believe that 144,000 spirit-anointed Christians will share with Christ in his heavenly Kingdom, ruling as kings with him. They do not believe that heaven is the reward for everyone who is "good."

    (6) The earth: They believe that God?s original purpose for the earth will be fulfilled; that the earth will be completely populated by worshipers of Jehovah and that these will be able to enjoy eternal life in human perfection; that even the dead will be raised to an opportunity to share in these blessings.

    (7) Death: They believe that the dead are conscious of absolutely nothing; that they are experiencing neither pain nor pleasure in some spirit realm; that they do not exist except in God?s memory, so hope for their future life lies in a resurrection from the dead.

    (8) Last days: They believe that we are living now, since 1914, in the last days of this wicked system of things; that some who saw the events of 1914 will also see the complete destruction of the present wicked world; that lovers of righteousness will survive into a cleansed earth.

    (9) Separate from the world: They earnestly endeavor to be no part of the world, as Jesus said would be true of his followers. They show genuine Christian love for their neighbors, but they do not share in the politics or the wars of any nation. They provide for the material needs of their families but shun the world?s avid pursuit of material things and personal fame and its excessive indulgence in pleasure.

    (10) Apply Bible counsel: They believe that it is important to apply the counsel of God?s Word in everyday life now?at home, in school, in business, in their congregation. Regardless of a person?s past way of life, he may become one of Jehovah?s Witnesses if he abandons practices condemned by God?s Word and applies its godly counsel. But if anyone thereafter makes a practice of adultery, fornication, homosexuality, drug abuse, drunkenness, lying, or stealing, he will be disfellowshipped from the organization.

    (The above list briefly states some outstanding beliefs of Jehovah?s Witnesses but by no means all the points on which their beliefs are different from those of other groups. Scriptural basis for the above beliefs can be found through the Index of this book.)

    This propaganda concept of "no creed, the Bible only" is flatly contradicted by the Questions from Readers in The Watchtower 4.1.1986, which clearly emphasizes a creed over Scripture (of this one I have a vivid memory because I read it only a few days before being disfellowshipped):

    ยท Why have Jehovah?s Witnesses disfellowshipped (excommunicated) for apostasy some who still profess belief in God, the Bible, and Jesus Christ?

    Those who voice such an objection point out that many religious organizations claiming to be Christian allow dissident views. Even some clergymen disagree with basic teachings of their church, yet they remain in good standing. In nearly all the denominations of Christendom, there are modernists and fundamentalists who greatly disagree with one another as to the inspiration of the Scriptures.

    However, such examples provide no grounds for our doing the same. Why not? Many of such denominations allow widely divergent views among the clergy and the laity because they feel they cannot be certain as to just what is Bible truth. They are like the scribes and Pharisees of Jesus? day who were unable to speak as persons having authority, which is how Jesus taught. (Matthew 7:29) Moreover, to the extent that religionists believe in interfaith, they are obligated not to take divergent beliefs too seriously.

    But taking such a view of matters has no basis in the Scriptures. Jesus did not make common cause with any of the sects of Judaism. Jews of those sects professed to believe in the God of creation and in the Hebrew Scriptures, particularly the Law of Moses. Still, Jesus told his disciples to "watch out . . . for the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees." (Matthew 16:11, 12; 23:15) Note also how strongly the apostle Paul stated matters: "Even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond what we declared to you as good news, let him be accursed." Paul then repeated that statement for emphasis.?Galatians 1:8, 9.

    Teaching dissident or divergent views is not compatible with true Christianity, as Paul makes clear at 1 Corinthians 1:10: "I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought." (New International Version) At Ephesians 4:3-6 he further stated that Christians should be "earnestly endeavoring to observe the oneness of the spirit in the uniting bond of peace. One body there is, and one spirit, even as you were called in the one hope to which you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all persons."

    Was this unity to be achieved and maintained by each one?s independently searching the Scriptures, coming to his own conclusions, and then teaching these? Not at all! Through Jesus Christ, Jehovah God provided for this purpose "some as apostles, . . . some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers . . . until we all attain to the oneness in the faith and in the accurate knowledge of the Son of God, to a full-grown man." Yes, with the help of such ministers, congregational unity?oneness in teaching and activity?could be and would be possible.?Ephesians 4:11-13.

    Obviously, a basis for approved fellowship with Jehovah?s Witnesses cannot rest merely on a belief in God, in the Bible, in Jesus Christ, and so forth. The Roman Catholic pope, as well as the Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury, professes such beliefs, yet their church memberships are exclusive of each other. Likewise, simply professing to have such beliefs would not authorize one to be known as one of Jehovah?s Witnesses.

    Approved association with Jehovah?s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah?s Witnesses. What do such beliefs include?

    That the great issue before humankind is the rightfulness of Jehovah?s sovereignty, which is why he has allowed wickedness so long. (Ezekiel 25:17) That Jesus Christ had a prehuman existence and is subordinate to his heavenly Father. (John 14:28) That there is a "faithful and discreet slave" upon earth today ?entrusted with all of Jesus? earthly interests,? which slave is associated with the Governing Body of Jehovah?s Witnesses. (Matthew 24:45-47) That 1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the Kingdom of God in the heavens, as well as the time for Christ?s foretold presence. (Luke 21:7-24; Revelation 11:15?12:10) That only 144,000 Christians will receive the heavenly reward. (Revelation 14:1, 3) That Armageddon, referring to the battle of the great day of God the Almighty, is near. (Revelation 16:14, 16; 19:11-21) That it will be followed by Christ?s Millennial Reign, which will restore an earth-wide paradise. That the first to enjoy it will be the present "great crowd" of Jesus? "other sheep."?John 10:16; Revelation 7:9-17; 21:3, 4.

    Do we have Scriptural precedent for taking such a strict position? Indeed we do! Paul wrote about some in his day: "Their word will spread like gangrene. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of that number. These very men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some." (2 Timothy 2:17, 18; see also Matthew 18:6.) There is nothing to indicate that these men did not believe in God, in the Bible, in Jesus? sacrifice. Yet, on this one basic point, what they were teaching as to the time of the resurrection, Paul rightly branded them as apostates, with whom faithful Christians would not fellowship.

    Similarly, the apostle John termed as antichrists those who did not believe that Jesus had come in the flesh. They may well have believed in God, in the Hebrew Scriptures, in Jesus as God?s Son, and so on. But on this point, that Jesus had actually come in the flesh, they disagreed and thus were termed "antichrist." John goes on to say regarding those holding such variant views: "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works."?2 John 7, 10, 11.

    Following such Scriptural patterns, if a Christian (who claims belief in God, the Bible, and Jesus) unrepentantly promotes false teachings, it may be necessary for him to be expelled from the congregation. (See Titus 3:10, 11.) Of course, if a person just has doubts or is uninformed on a point, qualified ministers will lovingly assist him. This accords with the counsel: "Continue showing mercy to some that have doubts; save them by snatching them out of the fire." (Jude 22, 23) Hence, the true Christian congregation cannot rightly be accused of being harshly dogmatic, but it does highly value and work toward the unity encouraged in God?s Word.
  • undercover
    undercover

    I noticed this thread this morning but I've been igoring it all day because I thought it was about a terrible rock group.

  • Undaunted Danny
    Undaunted Danny

    "CREED OF GREED"

    The Watchtower's creedo:"Money,Money and More Money".

    Danny sez;"The Watchtower fairy follows the money trail,and sprinkles the 'new light' fairy dust along the path....

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