Need feedback on this!

by SWALKER 6 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • SWALKER
    SWALKER

    Here is a great topic for discussion:

    According to the Reasoning Book on page 267 it states under the topic "Who is to partake of the bread and the wine?"

    "Who partook when Jesus instituted the Lord's Evening Meal shortly before he died? Eleven faithful followers to whom Jesus said: "I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom." (Luke 22:29)

    That makes it sound as if partaking of the emblems instituted the Kingdom Covenant. However, if you read the account at Luke 22: 19,20 here is what took place. Jesus instituted the eating of the bread and the drinking of the wine. Then there was arguing and bickering among the disciples on who was the greatest. THEN Jesus made the Kingdom covenant with them to rule with him, and eating the bread and drinking the wine was not what sealed the deal with them(as that had already taken place). It was just his promise to establish this arrangement. The covenant was not based on eating the bread or drinking the wine, rather it was a symbol of our accepting his giving his life and pouring out his blood. He stated that we should continue to commemorate this occasion. Should all Christians partake, showing their acceptance of his sacrifice?

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Hi & welcome Swalker!

    Note the parallel saying in Matthew 19:28 is not connected with the Passover meal and mentions 12, not 11, thrones...

    Then Peter said in reply, "Look, we have left everything and followed you. What then will we have?" Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man is seated on the throne of his glory, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields, for my name's sake, will receive a hundredfold, and will inherit eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last will be first.

    More generally, there is not the slightest indication in the whole New Testament to two classes of Christians.

  • Flash
    Flash
    THEN Jesus made the Kingdom covenant with them to rule with him

    If we all qualified, who would we rule over? All Chiefs and no Braves??
    Nakissos and I disagree on this point. Jesus said there are two folds in John 10:16 plus Rev. 14:1-3 supports it. These two read pretty clear to me, one fold rules, one does not.

    Hello and Welcome!

  • ellderwho
    ellderwho

    Flash,

    Jesus said there are two folds in John 10:16

    John 10:16 'I shall bring them in and there shall be one flock and one shepherd."

    John 11:51,52 "He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation, 52 and not only for that nation but also for the scattered childern of God to bring them together and make them one"

    John 17:20 " My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message that all of them may be one"

    Eph. 2:11-19; 11Wherefore remember, that once ye, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called Circumcision, in the flesh, made by hands; 12that ye were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus ye that once were far off are made nigh in the blood of Christ. 14For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition, 15having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace; 16and might reconcile them both in one body unto God through the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17and he came and preached peace to you that were far off, and peace to them that were nigh: 18for through him we both have our access in one Spirit unto the Father. 19So then ye are no more strangers and sojourners, but ye are fellow-citizens with the saints, and of the household of God,

    Rev 3:21

    21He that overcometh, I will give to him to sit down with me in my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father in his throne.

    20 4-6:

    4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    The above quoted verses never limits the number of saints to be with Christ.

    Of the 144K Rev 7:14 And I say unto him, My lord, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they that come of the great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

    Rev 7:4-8 refers to a literal number of Jews. From 12 tribes except Dan. Some believe these are those who preach the Gospel during the Great Tribulation.

    E.

  • Euphemism
    Euphemism

    Flash... IMHO, the most reasonable conclusion (within the framework of JW eschatology) is that the Christians in heaven would rule over the non-Christians resurrected to earth.

  • SWALKER
    SWALKER

    I was not saying there were not two classes, but explaining the point that the emblems were partaken of BEFORE some time before Jesus concluded a covenant with them for the Kingdom.

    He did talk about the new covenant when passing the wine which is totally different than the Kingdom covenant. Check out Jeremiah 31:31 (which by the way you are referenced to at Luke) which includes the entire nation, not just the priesthood. If that is the case then all true Christians should be partaking of the emblems as it not a sign of a heavenly calling.

  • GreenDragon
    GreenDragon

    Hi swalker,

    The convenant mentioned in Luke 22:29 is the same promised he made to the apostles in Mat 19:28, and like you said it is part of Jesus talk to settle the "Who is the greatest dispute". This is not the NEW convenant.

    1 Cor 11:26, "For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes"
    All JW shouldn't partake because according to them Jesus returned in 1914.

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