What is the WTS or have the JWs broken up?

by XQsThaiPoes 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • XQsThaiPoes
    XQsThaiPoes

    I would like this thread to focus on the realtionship of the Watchtower and religion Jehovah's Witnesses. Maybe this is old news but the watchtower has had so much nightvision it no longer needs "new light". The watchtower as offically resigned at least on paper as being in control over or responsible for Jehovah's Witnesses. In other words they have split and don't know it yet.

    Here is the belifes of Jehovah's Witnesses.

    WHAT JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES BELIEVE
    BeliefScriptural Reason
    Bible is God's Word and is truth2 Tim. 3:16, 17; 2 Pet. 1:20, 21; John 17:17
    Bible is more reliable than traditionMatt. 15:3; Col. 2:8
    God's name is JehovahPs. 83:18; Isa. 26:4; 42:8, AS; Ex. 6:3
    Christ is God's Son and is inferior to HimMatt. 3:17; John 8:42; 14:28; 20:17; 1 Cor. 11:3; 15:28
    Christ was first of God's creationsCol. 1:15; Rev. 3:14
    Christ died on a stake, not a crossGal. 3:13; Acts 5:30
    Christ's human life was paid as a ransom for obedient humansMatt. 20:28; 1 Tim. 2:5, 6; 1 Pet. 2:24
    Christ's one sacrifice was sufficientRom. 6:10; Heb. 9:25-28
    Christ was raised from the dead as an immortal spirit person1 Pet. 3:18; Rom. 6:9; Rev. 1:17, 18
    Christ's presence is in spiritJohn 14:19; Matt. 24:3; 2 Cor. 5:16; Ps. 110:1, 2
    We are now in the 'time of the end'Matt. 24:3-14; 2 Tim. 3:1-5; Luke 17:26-30
    Kingdom under Christ will rule earth in righteousness and peaceIsa. 9:6, 7; 11:1-5; Dan. 7:13, 14; Matt. 6:10
    Kingdom will bring ideal living conditions to earthPs. 72:1-4; Rev. 7:9, 10, 13-17; 21:3, 4
    Earth will never be destroyed or depopulatedEccl. 1:4; Isa. 45:18; Ps. 78:69
    God will eliminate present system of things in the battle at Har-Magedon Rev. 16:14, 16; Zeph. 3:8; Dan. 2:44; Isa. 34:2; 55:10, 11
    Wicked will be eternally destroyedMatt. 25:41-46; 2 Thess. 1:6-9
    People God approves will receive everlasting lifeJohn 3:16; 10:27, 28; 17:3; Mark 10:29, 30
    There is only one road to lifeMatt. 7:13, 14; Eph. 4:4, 5
    Human death is due to Adam's sinRom. 5:12; 6:23
    The human soul ceases to exist at deathEzek. 18:4; Eccl. 9:10; Ps. 6:5; 146:4; John 11:11-14
    Hell is mankind's common graveJob 14:13, Dy; Rev. 20:13, 14, AV (margin)
    Hope for dead is resurrection1 Cor. 15:20-22; John 5:28, 29; 11:25, 26
    Adamic death will cease1 Cor. 15:26, 54; Rev. 21:4; Isa. 25:8
    Only a little flock of 144,000 go to heaven and rule with ChristLuke 12:32; Rev. 14:1, 3; 1 Cor. 15:40-53; Rev. 5:9, 10
    The 144,000 are born again as spiritual sons of God1 Pet. 1:23; John 3:3; Rev. 7:3, 4
    New covenant is made with spiritual IsraelJer. 31:31; Heb. 8:10-13
    Christ's congregation is built upon himselfEph. 2:20; Isa. 28:16; Matt. 21:42
    Prayers are to be directed only to Jehovah through ChristJohn 14:6, 13, 14; 1 Tim. 2:5
    Images should not be used in worshipEx. 20:4, 5; Lev. 26:1; 1 Cor. 10:14; Ps. 115:4-8
    Spiritism must be shunnedDeut. 18:10-12; Gal. 5:19-21; Lev. 19:31
    Satan is invisible ruler of world1 John 5:19; 2 Cor. 4:4; John 12:31
    A Christian ought to have no part in interfaith movements2 Cor. 6:14-17; 11:13-15; Gal. 5:9; Deut. 7:1-5
    A Christian should keep separate from worldJas. 4:4; 1 John 2:15; John 15:19; 17:16
    Obey human laws that do not conflict with God's lawsMatt. 22:20, 21; 1 Pet. 2:12; 4:15
    Taking blood into body through mouth or veins violates God's lawsGen. 9:3, 4; Lev. 17:14; Acts 15:28, 29
    Bible's laws on morals must be obeyed1 Cor. 6:9, 10; Heb. 13:4; 1 Tim. 3:2; Prov. 5:1-23
    Sabbath observance was given only to Israel and ended with Mosaic LawDeut. 5:15; Ex. 31:13; Rom. 10:4; Gal. 4:9, 10; Col. 2:16, 17
    A clergy class and special titles are improperMatt. 23:8-12; 20:25-27; Job 32:21, 22
    Man did not evolve but was createdIsa. 45:12; Gen. 1:27; Matt. 19:4
    Christ set example that must be followed in serving God1 Pet. 2:21; Heb. 10:7; John 4:34; 6:38
    Baptism by complete immersion symbolizes dedicationMark 1:9, 10; John 3:23; Acts 19:4, 5
    Christians gladly give public testimony to Scriptural truthRom. 10:10; Heb. 13:15; Isa. 43:10-12

    As you can see the GB, WTS, and FDS are all absint. Even 1914, and Jesus is Micheal is missing. It boils down to if you believe all these things you are a Jehovah's Witness regarless of status in the congregation.

    THis is what the WTS claim "The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. is a legal organization in use by Jehovah's Witnesses." www.watower.org They are not longer Gods prophet or whatever people claim, but the anti-defamation league for JWs.

    Now on to next topic.

    Do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?

    No. Many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah's Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before God's time of judgment, and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. Humans look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. God has committed judgment into Jesus' hands, not ours.?Matthew 7:1-5; John 5:22, 27 http://www.jw-media.org/beliefs/beliefsfaq.htm

    As we can see here the the watchtower don't believe only JWs will servive armegedon (if that is the case dang it what's the point).

    My point is simply the watchtower has branded jehovah's witnesses as any onther religion, relinquished control of them (this probally is due to the death of the FDS "God's channel"), but has yet to acknolege this publicly. It is like they wish to harbor ignorant JWs that are too dense to realize their "religion" the has been disbanded and that Jehovah's Witnesses don't have to listen to the watchtower anymore. The watchtower has moved on to bigger and better things. In about 10 years I think the elders world wide will wake up and realize no body is piloting the plane known as Jehovah's WItnesses after the gulf between the WTS and JWs become too wide to span. They are on autopliot now from years of training.

    One day in masses they are going to ask the WTS for help and the WTS is going to scratch its head as say "come again we are Jehovah whats? We are just a non-biased non-profit publishing company that share some Jehovah's Witness belifes, but you if realy need help maybe your religion should form some non-profit organization to represent you, or donate to our legal dpt." I think Jesus commented on this, but I can't tell whom did the skining and throwing the WTS or the JWs I am leaning to the JWs since they stoped reading and "thrown about" their watchtowers years ago.

    Anyone have the corporate information of the WTS break up into 3 separate organizations? I am trying to see how far is the gap between the org and the JW's. I also would like to see how many times the watchtower has been at odds with JWs. In which the watchtower says or does one thing and the JWs ignore it or protest it. I think the NGO status is the best example sofar. JWs believe the UN is the beast and the WTS obviously is not beliving that. What many see as hypocracy may actually be a schism in the JW faith effectively two separtate religions too embarassed to say they have gone their separate ways.

  • lurk
  • garybuss
    garybuss



    I am not aware of the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation claiming to be a prophet since they had to eat all those Watchtowers and books predicting something BIG in 1975.

    The governing body officially disassociated itself from the Watch Tower Corporation in 2000 when the assets were split up yet again.

    Here are some links for your reading enjoyment.

    http://www.jw-media.org/region/global/english/releases/events/001007.htm

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20001009/aponline235956_000.htm

    http://www.freeminds.org/h2o/289007.html

    http://www.watchtowernews.org/reorganization.htm

    Interesting thread, please write more. GaryB




  • XQsThaiPoes
    XQsThaiPoes

    Wow that was deep...

    THE CHRISTIAN CONGREGATION OF JEHOVAH"S WITNESSES reminds me of a name for a sappy cross the 'I's dot the "T"s straight laced church. Like the ominous sound of " THE RELIGIOUS ORDER OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES:" and their vow of poverty and obedience. Also KINGDOM SUPPORT SERVICES has a nice militant ring to it. Give us 400 years, and we may be the new Catholic Church.

    Also I wanted to ask if the religion that most apostates and anti-cult groups criticize still in existence? I have been looking for a more of watchtower bolstering the their authority as God?s only true and chosen religion but from the looks of it the watchtower is trying to distance its self from all religions including Jehovah?s witnesses. I can't tell if this is a clandestine plan to survive the end times, or just the fact that the watchtower its self has become disenfranchised with the behavior of Jehovah's Witnesses, and its own mistakes. It is like they have slowly realized they were not the people they thought they were (anointed by God) and now are stuck with trying to play the chastity angle to court God's approval which is failing. In other words we are the most moral therefore we must be his people (actually God?s people tend to be vulgar and immoral perverts struggling to control their compulsions and often failing)

    Forgive me if I am not making sense or seem presumptuous, but to a thinking person the signals the WTS is sending is disturbing. "Everyone just keep your pants on until Armageddon, cuz we don't have a clue." While they may stay with 1914 and the literal flood (both to preserve chronology and both eroding support) they have bleached the rest of their doctrines to transparency, and almost to the point that they are just another Gnostic Unitarian church. Only the old witnesses (pre-1975) can read in between the lines, fill in the gaps, and see fragments of old doctrines but if a new person came in of the street they would just think "Wow that?s a weird sentence?" and move on.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    While a part of me wishes that it were true that the organization is in crisis, in reality they are just getting better at P.R. spin. "Say less, say lies to the public and smile smile smile." The WT has made very clear in the last few years that they consider themselves the unique agent of god and that disent will not be tolerated. The restructuring was done to shield themselves from the litigation that was beginning to come in. They were concerned that the finacial interests were too closely connected to themselves as 'religious leaders". It was alegal manuever not evidence of a rift in the cult.

    Do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?

    No. Many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah's Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before God's time of judgment, and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. Humans look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. God has committed judgment into Jesus' hands, not ours.?Matthew 7:1-5; John 5:22, 27 http://www.jw-media.org/beliefs/beliefsfaq.htm

    As we can see here the the watchtower don't believe only JWs will servive armegedon (if that is the case dang it what's the point).

    No the wording is careful and deceptive, they are saying that "many yet will BECOME jws and be saved" playing with the language to give the appearance of being broad minded and tolerant.

  • XQsThaiPoes
    XQsThaiPoes
    No the wording is careful and deceptive, they are saying that "many yet will BECOME jws and be saved" playing with the language to give the appearance of being broad minded and tolerant.

    When did stand for truth and righteousness become exclusive to JWs?

    Look at this from the article 4/01/04 "Identifing the wild beast and its mark"

    "This does not mean , however, that every human ruler is a direct tool of Satan. Indeed, in one sense, human governments serve as "God's minister," giving structure to human society, without which choas would rule. And some leaders have protected fundamental human rights, including the right to engage in true worship-- something that Satan does not want."

    I believe your statement is dated, biased, or that I am just dumb. Why would they claim non-JWs as "God's Ministers" doing things Satan does not want then if it only applies to JWs. I can't see your point being founded it could just be me. This is sort of what I am talking about in this thread. The watchtower will print a bold anti-typical statement and the R&F ignores it like they never heard it. Then when the feathers hit the fan all the WTS has to do is pull out reams of articles in which the JW liable will be demonized for ignoring.

    BTW JWs are exetremely open minded and tolerant on everything but the Watchtower and other JWs Maybe greed is the motive but this sudden turn around in the WTS is scary. I wonder who is pulling the strings or did the WTS actually decide to be responsible.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    This is called double speak. Out out one side of the mouth say that "some" political figures are ministers of god while out of the other side say that because they are part of the world they are under Satan's control. One is for the public the other is for the "mature" membership. This is typical of cults.

  • garybuss
    garybuss



    The Watch Tower Punishing Corporation prints two opposite and conflicting doctrines at the same time. The mediator doctrine is one example and the doctrine of the dual hopes and the ambiguous great crowd is another as you have shown.

    Your explanation of the ignored passages is right on. I saw it in the pre 1975 days. In fact the year text for 1974 itself was one of those. After the failure of 1975, those previously stealthlike passages were brought back and sold as the real teachings. Many of us who were there like me, didn't buy any of it. We left and were shunned and then later the printing corporation admitted it was all suggestion (Awake! March 22, 1993, p.4), an eager attempt (The Watchtower March 15, 1980 p.17), they had promoted erroneous views, made mistakes, printed misconceptions and wrong conclusions (Awake! June 22, 1995, p. 9), the predictions were adjustable expectations, (The Watchtower, 1986 March 15, p. 19) a mistake, and a miscalculation (The Watchtower Dec. 1, 1984 p. 18).

    Interesting thread XQ, mostly right on and very insightful. I have enjoyed it. GaryB





  • Nosferatu
    Nosferatu

    Not sure if any of this was covered in the links above, but here's another one:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/61586/1.ashx

  • XQsThaiPoes
    XQsThaiPoes

    Iam going to find a few more quotes, but I believe the JW maifesto(the docterines backed up by scripture) to be correct. This means the WTS is right or the bible is not meant to be a credible book because it is also writen in double speak. Also I believe the watchtower is spinning its wheels. They have retired officialy from being a choosen religion. THey are basically back to the old saved by grace speel, and yet they don't know it. Instead of an inclusive saved by grace it is an exclusive saved by grace. From their own words there is no definative reason to be a JW, nor listen to the Watchtower out side of being less "babylon the great"ish than your average church.

    Are all JWs saved? No.

    Are all world people saved? No.

    Who is saved? Unknown.

    That same issue 4/01/04 has an article called "Are you focusing on the reward" it expresses my feelings exactly, but childishly rationalized legitimate fears, and is too mundane to quote. Basicaly more of the great crowd understand they personaly may not be "saved", but may be included annonymously or randomly into a mass of the God fearing population that survives TEOTWAWKI. Not because of false docterine or immorality but the simple fact IT IS THE END OF THE FREAKING WORLD! They only have one scripture to vaguely support a "Christian" being spared 2 peter 3:9.

    2 Peter 3 9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. (NIV)

    This says nothing about personal salvation. In other words there is not a difinative garuantee in the bible that any human can know if God is going to spare them. It says he wishes for you not to be destroyed. God does a lot of wishing in the OT and every time people still bite the big one. It is nice to read an uplifting watchtower article sincerely pleding for us to believe God actualy loves us the "great crowd", but shocking to see the denial that do not we have a biblical bases for people of certain religions being ensured salvation. Amagedon must be around the corner anytime the Watchtower has to try to explain to JWs they will survive armagedon, and enter a paradise. More proof that JWs are ignoring their own litterature including our old "door to door" conversation starters.

    Basically the WTS is relagted to "the bulletin of atomic scientists" for JWs; who's only concern is how close we are to the end of the world, and not our religion. Maybe thats why the WTS is so autocratic people in the org nowdays don't believe enought of the truth to care about what is the truth, and like in the other thread "runing out the clock" ominously hovering at 7 minutes to midnight. http://www.thebulletin.org/clock.html

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