What is a Gargoyl?

by nojw86 9 Replies latest jw friends

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  nojw86

  After reading Zazu Pitts post and that old Bossart hotel which was bought by the JW. still had the gargolys on its roof top amazed me, since I thougt that gargoyls were domonic stautes. Can anyone help me withsome input onthis one?
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  You Know

  Gargols are little demon-like sculptures. Click here >>>> http://www.ils.unc.edu/garg/garghp4.html

  My guess is that when the Society bought that hotel that they agreed with the city officials not to remove them so as to retain the historical architectural character of the building as much as possible. It's the same thing no doubt with the winged-sun emblem that apparently exists on the exterior of the Stanely theater. Apostate lunatics of course would have you imagine that there is something sinister about those emblems remaining, but the fact is, that to remove them could be construed as an act of superstition. After all, the emblems are just stone and we don't really believe they can ward off demons. So, maybe you need to grow up some spiritually so as not to fall prey to this kind of simple-minded trickery. / You Know
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  ozziepost

  Have you ever heard of a gargoyle?

  Perhaps it's a female gargoyl!

  Cheers,
  Ozzie

  Freedom is not having to wear a tie.
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  Farkel

  : Apostate lunatics of course would have you imagine that there is something sinister about those emblems remaining, but the fact is, that to remove them could be construed as an act of superstition.

  Witness lunatics of course would have you imagine that there is something sinister about those items you bought at a garage sale remaining, but the fact is, that to remove them could be construed as an act of superstition.

  Idiot.

  Farkel
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  THE GLADIATOR

  What is a Gargoyl?

  A gargoyl is a wrinkled old elder. There is always one in every congregation. They are kept on to ward off good spirits which may want to enter the congregation and produce the 'fruits of the spirit' among the members.
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  ZazuWitts

  The WTBTS had NO choice in the matter. If they wanted the property, they could NOT remove the gargoyles.

  Very recently, my very active JW sis-in-law related that a newly baptized sister had a lovely ornamental Italian design garden, complete with gargoyle statuary (such images are quite the fad at present). When one of the elders came for dinner, and saw them she was told they could be demonized; she promptly destroyed them per his instructions. And, even so, my sis-in-law still can't bring herself to visit this 'sister' and see the garden - there could be some 'lingering' demons around, as she actually stated to me.

  Gargoyles stem from pre-Christian symbols of pagan worship; it is believed by scholars that they were incorporated into relics of the Roman Catholic Church in order to more easily 'convert/placate' pagans.

  The medieval cathedrals of Europe abound with gargoyle ornamentation. The gargoyles are often quite graphic, depicting half/men - half/animals and/or beasts, sometimes urinating or vomiting.
  I should think the WTBTS would especially want to distance themselves from such 'graven images', unless, of course, their desire for property was/is the more primary issue.

  In fact, some of the Bethelites who were moving into the Bossert Hotel, expressed the thoughts that the gargoyles were 'pagan images' and thought they would be removed, not realizing they they couldn't be under "Landmark" historical site regulations.
  (Brooklyn Heights Press, May 18, 1989, p.11).

  I do not think that any active Jehovah's Witness would be viewed as spiritually mature, within his congregation, or by Brooklyn standards, if he even had so much as one gargoyle reproduction in, or on his his home or in his garden.
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  nojw86

  Thanks guys, as always the WT has mananged to look stupid , and always confusing. One for Brooklyn Heights in keeping with land mark preservations , regards nojw
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  COMF

  Apostate lunatics of course would have you imagine that there is something sinister about those emblems remaining

  Gee, where would they get an idea like that?

  COMF
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  AlanF

  Gargoyles are the help mates of garboyes.

  With regard to accepting that their new building would have to retain the gargoyles because of city-decreed landmark status, this illustrates an important point about Watchtower leaders: they will compromise their own "Christian" principles whenever it is to the advantage of their publishing empire. God forbid that any individual JW do the same thing, though.

  This attitude can be seen in any number of instances of JW history.

  Until Nathan Knorr decided to be married, it was not only forbidden for Bethelites to be married, but the JW community often socially censured young people outside Bethel who got married. My parents were married in 1946 and it took 3-4 years for my Dad -- who left Bethel to get married -- to regain "privileges of service". My wife's parents got married around 1950 and were socially ostracised for years. Hayden Covington, who became president of the Watchtower Society for a short time after Rutherford died, and was the Society's bigtime lawyer who won a lot of cases for them before the U.S. Supreme Court, was married but was required not to live in Bethel. Instead, he and his wife lived in an apartment that was actually part of one of the Society's factory buildings but had an outside entrance. Covington was considered part of the Bethel family but his wife was not, and she had an outside, paying job. Obviously Knorr considered him useful and so the rules were bent to the Society's advantage.

  Until 1952 vaccinations were considered to be just as bad as blood transfusions are today. However, various WTS officials had a great deal of trouble meeting vaccination requirements for overseas travel, which restricted their freedom to travel, and so the Society simply dumped its long-standing doctrinal position.

  For decades the Society railed against young people going to college. "Pioneer or go to Bethel" was the watch-phrase. College was downgraded as an evil place where all sorts of evil things were virtually guaranteed to occur. Worst, of course, was that a young person might actually learn some facts that might show that some of the Society's teachings were bogus. But by the early 1990s the Society was having a lot of trouble finding new Bethel recruits who were trained in the technical areas that they needed for continued expansion. The young "Bethel boys" were completely unskilled and had to be trained to do everything, which was a problem for the Society since the average time of stay by that time was only about three years. So in 1992, in the November 1 Watchtower article "Education With a Purpose", WTS leaders lightened up on their traditional stand and told the JW community:

  When parents and young Christians today, after carefully and prayerfully weighing the pros and cons, decide for or against postsecondary studies, others in the congregation should not criticize them. If Christian parents responsibly decide to provide their children with further education after high school, that is their prerogative.

  This simple bit of lightening up, WTS leaders knew, would result in many young JWs going to college or otherwise getting a technical education, and eventually the Society would find some of them entering Bethel where their skills would be put to use.

  As a longtime elder once explained to me, Watchtower leaders are very practical men who really have little spirituality or devotion to Christian principles. They make a show of such devotion, and when certain leaders are personally bothered about some form of misconduct that the Bible also condemns, they will enforce "Bible principles" with a vengeance. But when devotion to such principles creates a problem for the Society, such as tarnishing its image, they give up on principle and do the "practical" thing.

  Nowhere is this better illustrated than in how the Society has handled sexual misconduct over the years. In Rutherford's day, the Society was not terribly concerned with marriage and fornication and adultery. Indeed, Rutherford himself was estranged from his wife and son for decades, and he maintained at least one mistress. Other top WTS leaders apparently engaged in conduct that, under Knorr, would have gotten them booted out. But Knorr was personally concerned about sexual matters, to the point of considering sex dirty even in marriage. So under him, the Society became obsessed with "sexual cleanness" in JW congregations. Fornication and adultery became disfellowshipping offenses. By the early 1970s these men even inserted themselves into the private bedroom practices of married couples. Today, by far the largest body of Pharisaical WTS rules concerns sexual misconduct.

  On the other hand, Watchtower leaders until very recently have been essentially unconcerned about the sexual abuse of children. That's partly because so many otherwise prominent and useful Watchtower leaders or elders have been involved in sexual abuse themselves. So to protect themselves, or their old-boy-network buddies, and most especially the Society's image, the Society has tried to cover up child sexual abuse in congregations however it could. Even today, rather than do what is necessary to rid their organization of molesters and get to the bottom of abuse situations, they invoke ecclesiastical privilege in order that elders avoid testifying -- even when terrible injustice is done to the abuse victims. Why? In order to protect that holy "Watchtower Society" name and the ones responsible for its disgusting policies.

  We all know very well what words are used to describe men who say but do not perform, who say one thing and do another, who give the appearance of righteousness but inside are "full of dead men's bones and every sort of uncleanness".

  AlanF
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  AGuest

  Dearest nojw86... may you have peace!

  Actually, You Know is wrong... again. Gargoyles are NOT 'demonic', but are actually the OPPOSITE... earthly representations of GOOD angels. (Lordy, You Know... STOP LISTENING to the 'false christs'!)

  Gargoyles are the closest thing that I can describe as to how spirit beings REALLY look. I have done that in the post " http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=6510&site=3"; under the "Bible" part of this Forum.

  You Know has let himself be part of those 'chosen ones' who are 'misled' into the saying that is GOOD... is bad... and what is BAD... is good.

  "Dragons"... "gargoyles", etc., are NOT bad. As I was privileged to share on H20, the oldest recorded civilization, the Chinese, REVERE dragons, and refer to TWO of them as the 'guardians of paradise'. Why? Because it was cherubs that guarded Eden. And cherubs are 'seraphs'. And seraphs... are 'saraphs'... or FIERY SERPENTS. And serpents... with wings and legs... are 'dragons'.

  People DECRY gargoyles because of their physical appearance. And that is because WE... are concerned with the OUTWARD appearance. But gargoyles were PLACED on castles and cathedrals to PROTECT them FROM demons! Duh! And the only thing that can 'conquer' a BAD spirit... is a GOOD spirit.

  In truth, spirit beings DO resembly dragons and gargoyles. Sorry, folks, but that it is the TRUTH. It is SATAN, whose beauty corrupted HIM... that has misled us to seeing with our EYES and thinking that everything GOOD... is physically beautiful. Nothing could be FURTHER from the truth, and it is quite the opposite, actually.

  My Father considers beautiful, what is beautiful... ON THE INSIDE. Satan, indeed was beautiful... on the OUTSIDE. But INSIDE, he was as his 'children', the Pharisees... 'full of deadmen's bones'. My Lord, however, was GHASTLY on the OUTSIDE... but inside, FULL of beauty.

  I am not lying to you; I am telling the truth. That is WHY... when my Lord returns and EVERY eye SEES him, 'what had NOT be recounted to them, they will actually see..." and they will then cry to the mountains, "FALL OVER US!"

  For earthling man, for the most part, has NOT been prepared. They have been prepared to receive SATAN, the BEAUTIFUL one, and NOT my Lord, the one whose appearance was 'not to be desired.'

  Does the WTBTS fellas KNOW this? Of COURSE, they do! That is why they have NO problem with the gargoyles remaining. But if they TOLD you this 'truth', they would then have to admit that they have LIED to you. Just as 'christendom' have used certain things, like Purgatory and exorcism to scare the HELL out of people and into subservience to THEM... so, too, the WTBTS has used Armageddon and a false fear of demons and what they do and LOOK like to scare folks into serving them. Tell me... WHO in the Bible was AFRAID of demons?! Name ONE person! Teling you the TRUTH, however, would open the door to the revelation of many MORE lies. And they can't have THAT... can they?

  Carey Barber... I KNOW who you are and who your 'leader' is, don't I?

  I bid you peace, nojw86.

  A slave of Christ,

  SJ