When Jesus said these words, did he mean that if God wouldn't shorten Armageddon, everyone would die, or did Jesus mean if God didn't intervene, man would destroy each other completely?
If those days weren't shortened, no flesh would be saved alive
by JH 5 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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JH
It could be both ways I guess, but I think that Jesus meant that God will have to save man from God's wrath.
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Narkissos
IMO Mark 13:20 can only be understood as referring (as an antidated "prophecy"; actually the text is in past tense) to the first Judean war (66-70) -- Peacefulpete would perhaps refer it to the second one around 135. It's an indication that the "tribulation" was not so great after all (it could actually be a gloss correcting v. 19).
Some relate it to the idea of "shortening", or pathologic acceleration of the time of the sinners in 1 Enoch 80:2 or 2 Baruch 20:1: in this perspective the "shortened days" would rather be the days before the tribulation, but this doesn't seem to suit the Markan context very well.
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peacefulpete
As Narkissos pointed out the entire context relates to events in the ancient past around Jerusalem. Xtians eager to keep the suspense alive have extracted phrases and words and insist that they have a greater "fullfillment" because the apocalyptic aspects (celestrial signs and liberation of Israel) did not happen as the Jewish Xtian author anticipated. The writer however declared that "immediately after" the tragic events of 66-70 (IMO revived and expanded later to apply to 132-35) the anticipated end was to occur. He was wrong. The comment that the passage "Unless cut short ...saved" may be a later gloss is brilliant. The entire Great tribulation passage was apparently a later addition (about events circa135) the added words about it being cut short may have been by the same redactor of the Matthew version after seeing the horrific happenings ending with the scattering of the Jews to the countryside. I think the "chosen ones" have to be understood as the Essene or Jewish Xtian camp that produced the first version of this apocalypse. The preXtian Qumran community often referred to coming horrors upon Israel and the subsequent "son of man" saving and honoring of the "chosen" elect that had not 'defiled' themselves with the Greeks and Romans and the apostate priesthood. Myself I have no problem believing that the original apocalypic section was not written by Xtians at all and that "Jesus" was later added credited with it.
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A Paduan
Jwism confuses tribulation with persecution (just another language problem) - tribulation is like what people such as jws go through when their "yes is not yes, or their no be no", like when they can literally taste the bullshit but do nought except try and swallow it, and all the while more truthful info comes their way in their door to door lives - or when they simply cannot believe/trust (due to guilt and so on).
So how long do people struggle with that appropriately?
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garybuss
It means Armageddon started in 1914 and then God hit pause so His book Publishing business headquartered in the United States could have more time to print literature and buy and develop more real estate. Cool huh?