Christ's Resurrection

by bjd4jc 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  bjd4jc

  I know that JW's believe that Christ was raised from the dead as an importal spiritual being. I have a problem with this because Jesus said that he would be raised in BODILY form. No JW has been able to explain this scripture to me. It is found in John Chapter 2. Starting in v. 18 it reads:

  (KJV)
  v18.
  The answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

  v.19
  Jesus answered and said unto them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

  v.20
  Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

  v.21
  But he spake of the temple of his body.

  v.22
  When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

  Now, to me this clearly states that his resurrection was going to take place in bodily form.

  Another scripture that supports this view is John 20. I'll start in verse 26.

  (KJV)
  v.26
  And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, "Peace be unto you."

  v.27
  Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither they finger, and behold MY hands; and reach hither thy hands, and thrust it into MY side: and be not faithless, be believing.

  v.28
  And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

  In this scripture Jesus refers to his hands and "MY hands" and his side as "MY side". So, Jesus was talking about his BODY not his spirit because spirits do not have flesh and bones.

  No JW has been able to provide a sensible explanation to me about these scriptures. This is a foundational doctrine for not only the JWs but for most other Christian denominations. There must be a right or a wrong and it obviously couldn't have happened both ways.

  I have not been satisfied by the scriptures that JWs have given to me concerning the topic of the ressurection. The first one provided to me was 1 Peter 3:18. It reads (KJV): "For Christ also hat once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened BY the Spirt." This verse merely states that he was raised BY the Spirit, not as a Spirit or in the Spirit.

  The next one is Romans 6:9. It reads (KJV): "Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hat no more dominion over him." I don't know what this scripture has to do with what form Christ was raised in and no one has been able to draw the parallel either...... go figure!

  If anyone has any response to these points, I am interested...
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  outnfree

  I always thought as a Witness that Jesus materialized various fleshly bodies when he desired to make appearances post-resurrection. Yet I believed he was raised as a spirit -- that's how he got into the locked upper room for example. I assumed that when Jesus appeared to Thomas some time later that he materialized his own body as it actually looked after being nailed and pierced, that is, post-crucifixion/pre-resurrection.

  I have NOT done an extensive study on this subject, however.

  On the matter of 1 Peter 3:18,[19] here are various translations:
  (You DO realize that more ancient -- in time -- manuscripts have been discovered since the KJV was written and they prove that certain passages should be revised?)

  Jerusalem Bible
  In the body he was put to death, in the spirit he was raised to life, and, in the spirit, he went to preach to the spirits in prison.

  Today's English Version
  He was put to death physically, but was made alive spiritually, and in his spiritual existence he went and preached to the imprisoned spirits.

  The Living Bible
  But though his body died, his spirit lived on, and it was in the spirit that he visited the spirits in prison, and preached to them --

  Westcott & Hort (literal rendering of the Greek)
  [he] having been put to death indeed to flesh having been made alive but to spirit; in which also to the in prison spirits having gone he preached.

  FYI, the
  New International Version supports your contention:
  He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison

  but it includes this footnote:
  "Or alive in the spirit, through which"

  Maybe this helped you, maybe not. It would seem it's all in how you want to interpret it.

  May you find peace,
  outnfree
• 

  bjd4jc

  outnfree-

  I assume from your writing and your name that you are no longer part of the organization - am I correct to assume this? If so, why was it that you left the organization?

  Brian
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  God_knows

  Do not fear, beloved one, you are right on in what you have said.

  Jesus WAS raised in a new BODY, not in the spirit.

  Hold fast to the truth, sweet one, do not let anyone sway you!

  I love you all!
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  outnfree

  Hi, Brian!

  My very l-o--n---g life story can be found at this thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=3432&site=3

  I am, indeed, no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I disassociated myself about 3 months ago.

  How about you? Is your story posted here?
  Looking forward to your reply,

  outnfree
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  bjd4jc

  outnfree-

  I don't really have a "story". I like to debate doctrine and to find/refute errors found in the translation/interpretation of the Bible. I am a non-denominational Christian. I attend a church called Open Bible. OB churches are similar in structure and doctrine to the Assembly of God churches. I haven't read you story yet, but I am looking forward to reading it. It'll be my weekend reading... I am very interested in why people leave the JW organization. I am sure there are many stories on this web site about that! I am just a new member to the site and haven't had much time to do reading. There is a girl that I go to school with that is JW. I enjoy having debates and talking about the differences in our doctrines and pointing out to her some things that she over looks. I'll be looking to this site for answers probably to questions that she has.....

  thanks for sharing your story..

  Brian
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  Jason

  In your message you cite different translations of the bible in order to try to prove that Christ was resurrested in "spirit form."

  "In the spirit" he did this, and "In the spirit" he did that.

  Are you aware that even the scholars who translated ALL of these versions of the bible believe in the physical resurrection?

  These versus say He did things "in the spirit." They do not say, however, that He did things AS a spirit." His "spiritual body" was not a "spirit body." Every scholar who has ever translated a bible agrees and knows that when it says in english "spiritual body" it says in Greek "supernatural body."

  His body was not JUST physical or JUST spiritual. It was SUPERNATURAL. That is why he could not only touch, be touched, and eat food, but he could also go through walls, ascend to heaven, etc, etc, etc.

  If you don't believe Christ was physically resurrected then you have two more options. #1. You believe Christ lied when He said he would be resurrected physically. Or #2. You believe the bible contradicts itself and is not an accurate record of Christ's ministry.

  Think for yourself. Don't let others think for you.
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  bjd4jc

  Jason-

  Thanks for your reply. You mention a good point in that the Bible never talks about Jesus doing anything AS a spirit. I have never thought about that. I have always believed in the Bodily resurrection and always will, I just like to hear other sides to things. It really helps me to understand and know why I believe what I believe. Thanks again for your response - I learned something new today!!!

  Brian
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  Semi-Arian

  This is the verse Jehovah's Witnesses used on me to support the spiritual ressurection. "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." 1st Corinthians 15:45 Though I don't believe that Jesus was raised as a spirit still I can't get around this verse. And I think it would be silly to say that everytime you see the word spirit that means supernateral. Anyways this might help you prove your point. Tell Jehovah's Witnesses that if Christ didn't have a body when he was resurrected than we won't have one because he is our example and Paul said that "For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto HIS GLORIOUS BODY, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself." Philipians 3:21 And then you might want to talk about the ascension to them when the angels spoke of Christ in this manner "Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." Acts 1:11 But this isn't the last we here of Jesus's ascension. "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. " Daniel 7:13,14 Jesus would not be called the Son of Man if he didn't still have a human body after being ascended. You know the most favorite verse that Jehovah's Witnesses use to try and deny the Divinity of the Son of God. "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; " 1st Timothy 2:5 Well it says man Christ Jesus and not Spirit Christ Jesus, our mediator still has his Body. Now on to more important matters. "...The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. " Mark 1:15 What is this gospel? "For God so loved the world, that he gave HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. " John 3:16 Jesus, the Son of God has all the divine attributes of his Father for He was begotten or born from his very own substance as the "express image of his person" Hebrews 1:3 "Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is HIS SON's name, if thou canst tell? " Proverbs 30:4 I am a Semi-Arian and this is my prayer for you "that the GOD OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: " Ephesians 1:17