Help with sister who's considering joining the WTS

by kitty 7 Replies latest jw friends

  • kitty
    kitty

    Hello everyone! I've been reading this board for a couple of weeks now. Because of it, I've ordered and received "Crisis of Conscience" and have begun to read it. I've also done many searches about Jehovah's Witnesses, the Watchtower Society, disfellowshipping, etc. This is all because my boyfriend's sister has been attending bible studies with their cousin, and is considering becoming a "witness." Incidentally, our families consist mostly of Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans and a few Catholics. I would say we are all relatively mainstream when it comes to faith and religion. Speaking for myself, I've never worried about anyone else's "religion" unless there was blatant evidence that the religion caused harm. Jehovah's Witnesses always struck me as a little odd, but I've never held it against them. When someone is very strong in their faith, I'm inclined to respect that. However, what I've learned about the Watchtower Society in just two weeks is very disturbing to me! We are astounded.

    We felt we should present another side to our sister, so we printed page after page of personal testimonies by people who've left the organization, and tons of information refuting the "New World Translation," etc. We gave her a binder full of information, believing that she should make an informed choice. I'm happy for her that she's renewing her faith, but I don't think she should join this organization in the process. It may be too late, though, because I think her cousin has convinced her that she's learning "the truth."

    My boyfriend's family has always enjoyed very close relationships. They genuinely love AND like eachother and have fun together. We thought she should know about "disfellowshipping," and that those stories would strike her the same way they struck us. What kind of god advocates hate? Instead, I believe she consulted with the cousin, and the response was that that doesn't really happen the way these people wrote about it. She's convinced that they must have gotten kicked out for a very good reason... they must have been very, very bad to be disfellowshipped. I say, actually, that who cares what the reason is... it's a bad practice regardless! Apparently the bible says to do this, but it also says, "love your neighbor." Of the two conflicting "commands" I choose the latter.

    She also doesn't buy the "trinity." Well, I wish she did, but that's not my primary concern. I'm more concern about her two little boys, and her family, and what might happen down the road... to everyone. We also want her to be happy, and if this makes her happy, then who are we to stand in the way? But I guess we just have some major concerns.

    Today my boyfriend told me that she said nothing she's read so far (of the volumes of paper we've given her) says anything about how the "Watchtower Society" is connected to her bible studies, or the Jehovah's Witnesses. At this time I'm unsure about her actual statement... I wish I'd heard it... but it's something to the effect that, "what's all this business about the society? I'm just learning about God and the Bible."

    Eventually I think it comes does come down to what anyone chooses to believe. I can't believe she doesn't fear the Watchtower Society after reading the same things we read. Can anyone offer us any additional advice? I'm intend to give her Franz's book when I'm done.

    Thank you for your time!

  • wasasister
    wasasister

    Your heart is in the right place, and what you've done so far is offer a balance to what she is being fed by the Witnesses. Some people are so starved for affection, they will accept the "love bomb" approach and tune out everything else. From what you've said about her family, she does not seem to fit this profile.

    Ultimately, she will do what she feels is best. Forcing an opposing viewpoint will only alienate her and cause her to distrust anyone who has spoken out against her newfound faith.

    I would suggest a supportive and discreet approach. Ask her pointed questions as in, "I don't quite understand this teaching, could you ask your instructor about.....?" Be sincere and never accusatory. Even if she eventually joins, you will not be "the enemy".

    Very best wishes.
    Wasasister

  • Thirdson
    Thirdson

    Hi Kitty,

    I think there is one thing you can show your friend's sister before she makes a choice. Ask her how many support groups exist for ex-Methodists, ex-Presbyterians, or ex-Lutherans. Ask her to compare that to the number of groups dedicated to supporting and helping ex-JW's. It says a lot about the religion if so many feel abused and screwed up after living life as a JW.

    Ask her also, if she knows the oath she will pledge at baptism and what the implication is as to being baptized into a legally incorporated organization. She should be made aware before the question is asked on the day.

    Thirdson

    'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'

  • heathen
    heathen

    In my opinion all religions are cults.They all
    deviate from TRUTH at some point playing to
    what's popular just so they can have a following
    and extort monies from the ignorant.My advice would
    be to let your sister live her own life and decide
    for herself that way she will have no one to blame
    in the end .heathens have more fun

  • Introspection
    Introspection

    Hi Kitty, I think we may have talked briefly on the support board on Network54. Basically there are two possibilities, she will either listen to you or not, decide to become a witness or not. It is possible to reason with her, but there is a good chance she will want to rationalize any doubts she might have because the good stuff just sounds too good. Everybody is different, but my guess is it isn't the amount of information that will convince someone, but often you hear ex-JWs say they did not see the love that is supposed to identify true Christians, for example. You can appeal to her on basic issues like this, but she will have to be honest with herself. It may be that you've already done all that you can, but certainly it's good to be open to opportunities for dialogue. Arguing scripturally may be problematic, JWs have all kinds of special arguments. I would keep my eyes peeled for basic spiritual matters like the matter of having that love, although in this case it could be easily confused with welcoming someone new. It may help if you can tell us a bit more about what you talk about in your conversations. For one thing, is she talking to you about JW beliefs yet? How long has she been studying? If you can give us more specific information we may be able to give you more specific ideas.

    "It is not so much that you use your mind wrongly--you usually don't use it at all. It uses you. This is the disease."--Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now

  • thinkers wife
    thinkers wife

    Kitty,
    I only read your post briefly. Patience and concern are really the key.
    But did you show her the history of JW's? The inconsistencies with actual documented historical time lines? The changes in their own doctrines?
    Also their convoluted teachings and prophecies on the time of the end? How about the Pyramid teachings that started with Russell and then later was changed by Rutherford, I think?
    How about the lifestyles of the past leaders? There is a ton of information on the internet to back these things up.
    What about the changes on blood policy. Purchasing and reading Crises of Conscience, by Ray Franz should give you plenty of documented ammunition, straight from their own archives.
    I hope you are successful and wish you luck.
    Also is this person going through any personal crises', many times this religion appeals to needy people. She may need counseling rather than a cultish religion in her life!!
    TW

  • Francois
    Francois

    The organization of Jehovah's Witnesses is a cult: dangerous, divisive, abusive. It's a cult that has destroyed thousands upon thousands of lives. Perhaps you can get your bf's sister's attention with identification of the JWs as a cult. And of course they've been so nice to her. The "love-bombing" so common to Jehovah's Witnesses at this stage is also common to the Moonies, the Scientologists, the Mormons, the Seventh-Day Adventists, Hare Krishna, Ekankar, and every other cult at this stage too.

    If your bf's sister will acknowledge that if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, has feathers like a duck, swims like a duck, it must be a duck. That said, please try to have her examine the following characteristics of every cult. You might have one or two of these characteristics and not be a cult. But not all (and there's more than I have included here):

    1. The cult has an infallible leader offering an extravagant hope.

    The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is just such an infallible leader. Whatever the GB says is regarded as coming from God, even if it is in direct contradiction of something they said last week, last month or last year. And you must accept it. If you do not accept it, whatever it is, no matter how it outrages your own sense of justice, mercy, compassion or fair play, you will be disfellowshipped because you refuse to accept it. I've seen it happen many, many, times. And this is the way you loose your family to the cult, or they loose you. The GB has stated that it is "the only channel of communication God is using" to communicate with people on the earth today. And you must believe it. And preach it to others.

    The Extravagant Hope part of this is everlasting life on a paradise earth. Soon. In fact within your immediate lifetime. This is something like the fifth or sixth time they have prophesied the "end of the world" in the last hundred years, a fact they don't discuss, and deny when confronted. The last date the world was supposed to end was October 10 (or close by), 1975 in the early daylight hours. JWs sold their homes, took out huge loans they knew they weren't going to pay back, postponed marriage and children, etc., etc.

    2. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

    As noted above, you must accept as coming directly from God all teachings of the GB. If it's in the Watchtower or the Awake, or any JW publication, you've not only gotta believe it, you've gotta preach it door-to-door.

    3. Mind-numbing techniques are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s). One of these techniques is to keep you very, very busy in cult business all the time with no time to think and reflect on what's really goin on.

    There are five meetings a week. You will be expected to be at every one of them. Plus you will be expected to participate in the door-to-door work for at the very least ten hours a month. You will also be expected to be at an assembly, large or small or maybe both, during the summer months. This usually means travel to a large city and sitting in hot, hard bleacher seats for up to ten or twelve hours a day for four or five days. If you decide to skip it and go on vacation with your husband, the elders will know about it and you will explain your private decsions to them. Any less than this and the "love" they show you will disappear and you will be "marked" as spiritually weak.

    4. The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, get married; leaders may prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth).

    JWs, especially the women, must wear what is approved by the society and/or the elders in your congregation. In my congregation this meant no pants suits, no pants of any kind, nothing considered "immodest" by the elders to include hair styles, fingernail polish, jewelery, etc for the women. It also meant no steel-rim glasses, granny glasses, bell-bottomed slacks, wide neckties (in fashion at the time), colored shirts (white only) and certainly you couldn't be a "fashion plate" like me, always wearing the latest fashion. Your behavior is examined under a microscope, the way you raise your children is considered fair game for the elders to dictate. In fact, the way you live down to the smallest detail is fair game. And that includes the intimate, nitty-gritty details of the way in which you engage in sex with your husband. There are many no-nos. No oral. Certainly no anal. Nothing the slightest bit kinky. Preferably sex is for having children and is best conducted in pitch black darkness in the missionary position and is to be enjoyed as little as possible. And you can and will be questioned, alone, in minute detail by a group of three men if they get the slightest opportunity. This is mainly to satisfy their voyeuristic proclivities. I've seen this happen.

    I lived with my "elder" uncle while I was in college in Tennessee in the late 60s. He would set his alarm and get up in the middle of the night to go spy on his bible studies (like you) as well as members of his congregation.

    5. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).

    "As noted, JWs consider themselves to have "The Truth" and are the only channel of communication God isusing..."

    6. The group has a polarized us- versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.

    This will become more and more apparent as time goes on. The world is made up of two groups: Jehovah's Witnesses and everyone else. Everyone else is regarded as "worldly" and is considered dominated by "Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion" which in turn is controlled by Satan and his demons, which means everyone not a JW is controlled by Satan including your husband. Association with the world is considered a giant no-no, and you can be "marked" for doing it. By the way, your bf is worldly.

    7. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group.

    Jehovah's Witnesses consider lying an acceptable technique in its spiritual warfare. And have said so in print. You will not be allowed to take a blood transfusion. If you do, you will be disfellowshipped, shunned. It's been the JW position on blood for decades. However, the JWs in an attempt to be accepted by the government of Bulgaria as a recognized religion, have testified in court, under oath that they strike no position on the blood transfusion issue. So when you ask JWs who are working with you about any of these things, you are very likely to be lied to.

    8. Cults always have some particular group hatred. With the JWs, that would be people who've had enough and left, apostates. Apostates are to Jehovah's Witnesses what the Jews were to the Germans in WWII. Someone to blame for everything and someone to get together and engage in a group hate and persecution. I'm certain that if the JWs could get away with killing us in the ovens, they would.

    These are just a few of the characteristics of a cult. And I have been totally truthful. I was born into this cult. I would have never joined. But I stayed in long enough to have been very, very hurt by it. I lost members of my family and friends for up to 16 years. My best friend from college still hasn't spoken to me since I left. That was almost 24 years ago. And I miss him so much till this very day.

    I could go on and on and on, but I'm not going to. All you have to do from this point is to get on a search engine on the internet and type "cult characteristics" or "Jehovah's witness cult" or some other phrases like that and see what you get.

    So yes JWs are without a shade of a doubt a cult. Don't be surprised that they treat people on the way in very well. They want something from your bf's sister: her very life. They want to turn her into a magazine selling, meeting going, hand-raising, comment-making, head-nodding, empty-skulled zombie. Once you get baptized, that "love" will come to a screeching halt. Count on it.

  • jwsons
    jwsons

    KITTY, I HOPE THIS FOLLOWING DOCUMENT, I POST to H2O PREVIOUSLY, WILL HELP YOUR SISTER:

    “The truth will not allow for all the different kinds of religious doctrine in the world…There can not be two sets of truth when one does not agree with the other. One or the other is true, but not both. Sincerely believing something and practicing that belief, will not make it right if it really wrong.”
    --from: You can live forever in Paradise on Earth, page 32.

    “If our worship is to be acceptable to God, it must be firmly rooted in God’s Word of truth. Jesus reproved those persons who claimed to serve God but who relied heavily on the tradit- ions of men in preference to God’s Word”
    --from: The Truth that leads to Eternal Life, page13

    =======================================================
    TOPIC FOR DISCUSSION: Does Sodomites resurrect or not ?
    =======================================================

    BEFORE 1965: “NO”
    *** Watchtower 1952 June 1 (page 334) "Get Out of Her, My People" ***
    ”In Jesus’ day it was a time of judgment and he warned certain Jewish cities of a fate like that upon Sodom and Gomorrah, and judged certain scribes and Pharisees fit for the eternal destruction of Gehenna. Our present day is also a time of judgment, and by the time Armageddon strikes all persons then living will have fixed their destiny”
    (pages 335-6,par. 8): “…(Luke 17:28-30, NW) Our previous consideration of 2 Peter 2:5-9 has shown that those destroyed by God at Sodom and Gomorrah are eternally “cut of” … The destruction upon Sodom and Gomorrah must be final, or Jude would not have used it to illustrate the fate of those defilers for whom “the blackness of darkness stands reserved forever”. (Jude 13, NW) Jude 7 shows that those ancient cities had their judgment day back there at the time of their destruction, since they are spoken of as having already undergone an execution of judgment, “the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.” By no wresting of scripture can this be made to mean a future resurrection for slain of the Lord. No”
    ***Watchtower 55 April 1 [page 200] Judgment Day-Just a Joke? ***

    THEN 1965 TO 1967: “YES”

    *** Watchtower 65 Jan.1 [page 25] Worship the God of Resurrection ***
    "Read the account in Matthew 11:20-24, and you will see what Jesus said about consequences. There he said that in the resurrection it will be much better for the people of Tyre, Sidon and Sodom, to whom Jesus never preached, than for those persons to whom Jesus did preach in Chorazin, Bethsaida and Capernaum. It was in these cities that Jesus did many of his powerful works, but they did not repent and follow him. Now, when the resurrection takes place for all these people, “
    [ page26]: They do not want to be like the people of Chorazin, Bethsaida and Capernaum, whose reforming after their resurrection will be more difficult than that of those coming back from Sodom and Gomorrah.

    *** Watchtower 65 March,1 [page 140,par.15] Who Will Be Resurrected from the Dead? ***:
    "15 Were those Sodomites worse than the rest of the Canaanites? No; not according to Leviticus 18:21-28. And Peter does not say that the Sodomites and Gomorreans were destroyed everlastingly"
    *** Watchtower 65 Aug.1 [page 479] Questions from Readers ***

    THEN 1967: Back to “NO”

    Watchtower 67 July 1 [page 409] Can Any War Be Wholly Just? ***
    This the Bible describes as the “second death.” (Rev. 20:14) It means the death from which there is no resurrection. They will be burned up root and branch, as completely gone forever as the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah

    FROM 1967 TILL 1986: “progressive” BACK TO “yes” ONE MORE TIME

    *** Awake! 74 10/8 [page 20] How God Has Actively Shown His Care ***
    God’s dealing with Sodom and Gomorrah shows that he takes no pleasure in the death of anyone, but wants all to live, if they will just live respectfully toward their fellowman and in obedience to righteous principles. (Ezek. 33:11; Mic. 6:8) Moreover, God’s undeserved kindness and care are so great that he will bring back the people of Sodom by a resurrection, with opportunity to learn and turn around to the way of life, even as his Son stated.—Luke 10:11,
    ***You can Live Forever (pe)book (1982 edition) [ page 179 .pars.9-11] ***
    9 By saying this, Jesus showed that at least some of the unrighteous people of ancient Sodom and Gomorrah will be present on earth during Judgment Day. Although they had been very immoral, we can expect that some of them will be resurrected. (Genesis 19:1-26)”
    Now : “progressive“ to confuse people by both “YES” and “NO”:
    In 1988 Convention (see Watchtower Jannuary 15, 1989 page 26)
    The picture in page 26 showed on the left J E Barr hold the “new light” (Insight book) contradict totally with W L Barry at the right also hold “new light”(Revelation Climax bk) about the resurrection of Sodomites
    *** Revelation Climax [page 273 (in Box “Epistle to Sodom and Gomorrah”) ] (book release in 1988): “NO”
    Jesus Christ also knew what he thought and stated it in explicit terms. He said that it would be “more endurable for the land of Sodom on Judgment Day” than for the religionists who spurned his message. (Matthew 11:23, 24) Jesus was here using hyperbole to show that those religious leaders who rejected the Son of God and his teaching were even more reprehensible than the Sodomites. Jude 7 states that those Sodomites underwent “the judicial punishment of everlasting fire,” meaning eternal destruction. (Matthew 25:41, 46)
    *** Insight Vol. 2 [page 985] Subject : SODOM
    Jude mentions that “Sodom and Gomorrah . . . are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.” This would not conflict with Jesus’ statement about a Jewish city that would reject the good news: “It will be more endurable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on Judgment Day than for that city.” Sodom and Gomorrah were everlastingly destroyed as cities, but this would not preclude a resurrection for people of those cities.—Jude 7; Mt 10:15; compare Lu 11:32; 2Pe 2:6.
    ***Insight Vol.1 [page 616] Destruction ***
    This is also illustrated by what happened to the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and their inhabitants. Jude indicated that these cities were everlastingly destroyed. (Jude 7; compare 2Pe 2:6.) However, Jesus’ words recorded in Matthew 10:15 show that at least some of the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah will receive a resurrection.—See JUDGMENT DAY

    See also *** Insight Vol.1 [page 985] Gomorrah ***,
    ***Insight Vol.2 [page 137] Judgment Day ***

    Most interestingly, the INSIGHT book (Sodomites will be resurrected) still be relevant as reference encyclopedia of the Society until today, never been revised or updated at all. The REVELATION CLIMAX book still be the study even though by itself it also has a disgusting thing, at page 159, has a picture with an angel giving John (represent “faithful & discreet slave,” as the Society explained) a little scroll. However, in the hand of angel of Jehovah (?) has the symbol of Satanism, a human face seen from side, the face curved likes a half moon !
    <b><u>John 8:44 said</u>: “He did not stand fast in the truth.When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar”</b>
    JWSONS

    <b><i>I love Jehovah more as an outsider of Waco Tower's wall</i></b>

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