by Cold-Dodger 35 Replies latest jw friends
Welcome CD - Mormons and J.W.'s have different doctrines but the same M.O. when it comes to control and indoctrination.
As for the #1 priority - extracting money from the beguiled - the J.W. puppet-masters are doing their best to emulate the Mormon's lucrative methods.
Hello Cold-Dodger, its nice to meet you.
I really enjoyed reading your post, you write with different descriptive words but otherwise very much like a J Dub would.
I think the biggest difference that as a former JW I would have said existed between us is the immortality of the soul.
Mormons obviously believe in this. JWs do not.
We were taught that immortality has to be granted by God and is only given to special people (like the 144,000) and that even Jesus himself didnt get it until he died faithful on earth first.
JWs are never given the hope of having it but the consolation prize if they do everything right is they can live forever which is different than being immortal because you have to stay in Gods good graces or at any moment in living forever you could be cut off.
Its like spiritual life support
Funny that so many of us worked so hard hoping for that!
My Mormon thing that I never could understand clearly was the trinity. Mormons dont/do believe in it?
It always seemed muddled to me.
One more thing!
(I always got the secret impression that the higher up JWs were jealous of the Mormons because they were a) happier b) better growth/larger numbers c) richer )
The JWs probably didnt talk to you when you would see them in their tract work because you have a strong (if weird and incorrect) religion. They like people who are "less" religous to try and convert instead of lost causes with false strong false beliefs (which describes themselves, ironically).
Nice posts guys. I remember reading about some exMormons who attended BYU and they were saying how they went to that prestigious university and applied the scientific method on all of their studies...except the study of their faith. No scientific method used there. I think that when you have neurological pathways that work for other intellectual queries in place, then it must be easier to apply those pathways when you move on from the cult. That may be why Mormons can move on a little easier than JWs.
I did not apply the scientific method in my analysis....
I started my journey outside of the Watchtower by studying Mormonism. My girlfriend at the time was LDS. I tried desperately to research the history of Mormonism, its doctrines and creeds. I read the BoM, PgP, and D&C. After time, I knew more about Mormonism then I did about my own Religion. [The Jehovah's Witnesses]
Everything I brought up to her fell on deaf ears, everything from Joseph Smith's polygamous escapades, to the Kinderhook scandal. My wife was not persuaded by them because she just assumed this information could not be trusted since it wasn't from an LDS source.
Eventually I started to read the bible, and in Hebrews they had a specific area where they talked about the temple of our body, Jesus dwelling in us as a mediator, thus there was no need for a physical temple anymore. I knew this struck at the heart of Mormonism which placed such a huge emphasis on temple practices.
At the same time, I also recognized that the Watchtower also believed that only 144k had the spirit "indwelling"
My immediate reaction to this was "How can those who are not anointed have the spirit of God intercede for them if they have no mediator?"
This was a huge wow moment for me, because the only thing I could deduce was that the Watchtower is the only mediator for the great crowd. [which is ironically what the Watchtower has taught in the past]
This of course was in no way biblical and started a domino effect of me researching the Watchtowers past. Eventually both me and my wife left our respective religions.
Cold Dodger
Very interesting post. I don't know that much about Mormons.
I was (born in) and raised by JW parents (father an elder). He was one of the compassionate Elders (these don't exist anymore). They want yes/company men now. My parents were very loving and kind but we were restricted growing up. No holidays, no worldly friends, no college. I never felt like I fit in with the JW's. I think I was given a free pass because my father was a VERY likable/loving man. Everyone loved him!
My spouse and I (been together 30+ years) always had a sense that we just didn't fit in to the JW mold. Never wanted to reach our for a position or Pioneer and meeting and assemblies were extremely repetitive and boring to us. Something just wasn't right! We could not put our finger on it so we just moved along like two robots. Then we started noticing how the men (the ones with positions) seemed to be hateful bullies. It seemed like we were part of a church that had a police state. I started wondering if these guys enjoyed the demise of other people. It seemed that way. Then we heard several talks given by what they call CO's (circuit Overseers). These are men that travel around several different Circuits and check on the spirituality of a Congregation. They are supposed to encourage the flock. There were a few kind ones but there were several (the majority) that we arrogant, pompous an downright rude. Not loving shepherds like we were told they were supposed to be.
What you said in your comment above was so true in the JW cult:
"By "meat," I mean we feel like going to church is expected, serving "faithfully in the kingdom" is expected, and anyone who doesn't pull their wait and do exactly as they are told is a shame to themselves and treated accordingly by the most Puritanical religious society you have ever been a part of."
If you didn't have a certain measure of "spirituality" you were considered a nothing in the Congregation. If men do not reach out, they are verbally bullied by these men who have positions. If you get a moment watch the Zone Meeting from last November (2014) regarding men who are not Ministerial Servants by the age of 23. This talk was given by a Governing Body Member (Anthony Morris III). Brother Morris basically told the audience that if a man was not a Ministerial Servant by the age of 23 , he was not good marriage material. We had already exited the cult prior to this talk but it was the nail in the cofin for us. This is NOT Jehovahs earthly organization. This talk was not loving and kind and upset so many people.
They hypocrisy in the JW cult is just incredible. I could just write about this for days but this is just a small example of what we witnessed. When there is more wrong than there is right, it is time to run like hell.
Hey CD, And thanks for the enlightenment!
Milk before Meat. I remember a family that had studied for 7 months. I think there were 7 in the family, 6 were getting ready to be baptized. The week befor the CA they were to be baptized at, it was announced that Wendy was dfed. Well this family had become friends with Wendy and her parents. Wendy (poor kid 17) starts sobbing uncontrollably, but her dad made her set there though the humiliation, crying until the meeting was over, then sent here to the car! Inhushed tones, people were stopping expression their sadness, to the family, just like Wendy had died! All along mom and dad new family, were listening, and started asking questions! An hour later, new family walked out, never to return. Wendy, poor girl was put out of the house two days later, and she was 3 months pregnant. No job, no friends : ( nowhere to go. The by now x-new family, saw Wendy setting at a bus stop, with a suitcase and a few stuffed animals, crying! X-new family stopped and picked her up, and took her to live with them.
Last time I heard, the family treated Wendy like family, her baby like their granddaughter. They paied Wendys way to Georgia State Tech, in Atlanta. She married the x-new families oldest son, the one that never even started to study.
It been 16 years since I last heard anything. But its good to know one good ending!
Dwain
Greetings, Cold-Dodger.
I'm not a JW, (although my wife was raised as one) so I can't really comment on what it was like to grow up in that environment.
I have a slightly different observation:
Jay-dubs, as the Mormon missionaries affectionately call them, are known to us mostly by their 'weird' beliefs.
It's fascinating to me how clearly JW and LDS people see the faults in each other, while simultaneously believing that they are as pure as the driven snow.
The idea that a civilization on par with ancient Greece or Rome once flourished on the North American continent is a source of amusement to JW's. The fact that the BOM is written in the Jamesian English of the 16th and 17th century even though it was translated in the 19th century makes them shake their heads in sorrow.
The presence of Greek artifacts in the BOM (e.g. "Verily verily I say unto thee" is a bad translation of a Greek idiom peculiar to one writer of the NT) is taken by JW's as lack of critical thinking skills, which is funny when you think about it, because JW's are masters of logical fallacy when it comes to their own faith.
I don't mean this disrespectfully. I grew up within walking distance of a Temple, so I played with, went to school with, dated and worked for Mormons and have a great deal of respect for the good things in the LDS community.
Hello cold dodger!
Really enjoyed your post, both this one and the exmormon forum! its amazing how the two religions\cults are poles apart theologically, yet the key elements of cult mind control are almost identical!
I can relate to what you've said in so many ways for example the 3 categories of people strong, weak and apostates. That's identical among the jw community, ex members who have re-discovered their critical thinking abilities are demonized\stigmatised by the group. I viewed my own family members in this way for years and have only begun building relationships with them in the last 6 months.
Reading the comments on your Mormon post was part of a healing process for me. To hear from others who also once thought their religion was the truth, helps me to see that the jw's are not as special and unique as I once thought. That others too fell victim to a convincing, seemingly flawless body of teachings-only really held together by control mechanisms.
So thank you for your great posts
Warm regards!
