Faith and the Bible.Is it all Just An Illusion ? With no basis in the real world ?

by smiddy3 8 Replies latest jw friends

  • smiddy3

    The bible states that :

    "Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for"...." the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld" Heb.11:1

    Looking at the "True" history of the WTB&TS and not the sanitized version Jehovah`s Witnesses like to portray nowadays ,nothing the JW`s put faith in ,in over 103 years of their prophecy`s , expectations ,whether it related to the world powers , the King of the North or the king of the South ,the United nations (which they joined for 10 years ) as the disgusting thing that causes desolation,their now acceptance of things they accused Christendom of doing such as using ATM`s for donating funds,(they never solicit for money){ excuse me while I puke} .All of the failed prophecy`s of the the End/Armageddon/great Tribulation and the end of false religion Babylon The great and the list goes on and on and on.

    1914 , 1919, 1925 ,1975 ,the year 2000 ,and of course since 1914 any day soon , just around the corner ,its imminent ,in our day ,It cant be any more than 5 years away .

    6000 years of human history ended in the late 18th Century

    OOPS sorry ,6000 years of human history didn`t end till 1975 and that is a date that would be appropiate for Jesus Christ to start his 1000 year reign.

    Excuse me , Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for ?

    With Jehovah`s Witnesses it is obviously Blind Faith that they are hoping in.

  • DesirousOfChange

    And there is the reason it is called: "blind" faith.

    A person has to be "blind" to continue to put faith in something with such a history of failure.

    In fact, a person has to want to remind "blind" to continue to have such faith, when all evidence around you proves it to all be lies.

  • scratchme1010
    Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for ?

    Actually I agree about their definition of faith (to some extent). I believe that faith is necessary and part of being human. What I don't believe is in having faith in what them or any the the crap they preach.

  • sir82

    6000 years of human history didn't end till 1975 and that is a date that would be appropriate for Jesus Christ to start his 1000 year reign.

    That statement from the Watchtower article always killed me - the sheer presumptuousness of it.

    "Yeah, sure, you're the king of king and lord of lords, yadda yadda yadda, but you ought to to start your reign in 6 years based on these numbers I came up with. Time's a wasting, let's get moving, lord."

  • David_Jay

    "Faith" and the Bible don't necessarily go together. "Faith" and Jehovah's Witnesses do, however.

    Judaism didn't introduce this concept until the Middles Ages, when Maimonides taught Jews to incorporate it as a translation of some of our words to defend against Protestant proselytizing efforts. The actual word "faith" doesn't appear in the Hebrew Bible. Since the Holocaust, Jews have begun to return to pre-Maimonides vocabulary.

    Interestingly, the word "faith" isn't actually in the New Testament either. A product of the Jewish world, there wasn't a concept for "mental assent to a religious concept or doctrine." The word in the Christian Scriptures is PISTIS, which means "faithfulness."

    "Faith" is completely static and doesn't require much more than assent from a person. But "faithfulness" is not a static word.

    The Jehovah's Witnesses have Jesus saying: "If you have faith the size of a mustard grain, you would say to this black mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea!' and it would obey you." --Luke 17:6, NWT, 2013 revision.

    It sounds ridiculous. Just believe and it will happen?

    But note that the word there for "faith" is PISTIS. Also, take into account something about the mustard plant and Jewish law during the Second Temple era in which Jesus lived. Mustard plants are destructive. Their roots burrow and seek out the roots of other plants beyond their own boundaries and suck the nutrients and life of other trees and vegetation. One mustard tree plant can wipe out a neighbor's garden, vineyard or orchard if planted in the wrong spot.

    So there were laws devised on where and how mustard grain could and could not be planted, and how they were to be constantly tended with their roots constantly supervised less they destroy other crops and trees. They could literally "tell" another tree "where to go plant itself," so to speak.

    Taking this into account, including the right way to translate PISTIS, the verse should read:

    If you were as faithful as a grain of mustard, you could be the one saying to a mulberry tree, "Get out of my way and jump into the sea!" And it would have no option but to obey you.

    Big difference, right?

    Now, the reason for this little lesson in Greek language and Jewish background is to help you see that your question is based on a limited scope: the tiny Watchtower view of the Bible and it's definition of faith.

    Is the faith you are questioning really the "faith" mentioned in Scripture? The type practiced in religions? If so, why no introduction of it into Judaism until the Middle Ages and then an abandonment of it after the Shoah? How does that work since the Jews penned the majority of the Bible? That would leave you with a paradox instead of a question.

    Then there's the actual meaning of the word "faith." It doesn't mean "a static mental assent to a doctrinal concept or belief." No, the New Testament word means "faithfulness," an action word, to be trustworthy in one's work or way of doing things. How does one have "blind faithfulness" in this sense? Remember the mustard seed illustration? Jesus was teaching people not to go forward blindly, but to have a plan, and to go forward with it "faithfully."

    So are we talking faith and the Bible or Watchtower doctrine about faith and the Bible? I think the latter.

  • smiddy3

    Thank you David_Jay for the Jewish perspective it makes a lot of sense to me the Bible mainly being a Jewish book

  • waton

    JW and their Governing Body , [self] appointed Faithful and Discreet Slave, of 1919, have faith, that they will continue to make divine "biblical history" ." New Books" in the "New System" and all.

    Given the "historical" content of the bible, From the colossal Gen. 1;1 error, the talking snake story, offering of carrion, angels carrying on and resulting flood, ---

    Jws confidently can have the assured expectation of these realities. more unbelievable stories to continue to be spun. -- current version?

    last overlapping partakers will be raptured circa 2075, their bodies disposed off by angels like happened to the one of Jesus.--- no tale is tall enough.

  • Bugbear

    The word faith is equal to fantasy. Meaning that your brain can make up any fantasy it likes. You could be a “Star war” captain, or Henry the 8th. You could be Jesus or Mohammed…. There is no need of proving anything just relax and dream away….

  • waton
    The word faith is equal to fantasy. Meaning Bb.

    That is true of religious faith, the word is even synonymous with "denomination" and their doctrine.

    In the real world though, for example, millions of people rightly put their faith into the 4 ways , natural laws, that allow a wing to generate enough lift out of thin air., counterintuitive though it appears.

Share this