Justification

by Sea Breeze 8 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze
    The..."other sheep...are...not even justified". - WT 1938 pg. 104-105

    JW's are internationally famous for rejecting the New Covenant "for the forgiveness of sins" (Mt. 26: 27-28) at their perversion of the Lord's Supper.

    While JW's have a long drawn out "explanation" of why they do this, two verses in Romans plainly state the consequences for this heretical act of defiance against this free gift of "Justification".

    No, the WT hasn't used the word "justification" in a long time. They prefer to use the term, "declared righteous". No biggy. The point is that almost all JW's will agree that they are not justified or declared righteous by the blood of Jesus.

    However Romans 5: 1 states that we have peace with God by being justified (declared righteous) by our faith.
    Furthermore, Romans 5: 9 states : "being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."

    Q for JW's - If you are not justified, how are you going to escape the wrath of God?


  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345

    Believers have one common hope (Eph 4:3-6), the faith of the apostles and the believers is of equal value (2Pt 1:1). Mt 24:45-51, the parable along with chapters 24-25, warns for vigilance and stewardship, not prophesying about the 20th century. The 144,000 in Rev 7 and 14 cannot be all the "anointed" ones called continuously over the past 2,000 years, because they experience the beginning of the "great tribulation" as a unified group. The "great crowd" in Rev 7 also emerges from "the great tribulation" in the future: today's Witnesses may not belong among them (7:13-14). Lk 12:32 the "little flock" refers to the smallness of the 12 apostles not in their number, but in their situation ("Have no fear...!", Lk 12:22, 25,29). The "kingdom" here does not refer to a place (heaven), but to a heart condition (Rom 14:17-18, Lk 12:31). Jn 10:16, Jesus already has other sheep in the 1st century, i.e., the non-Jewish peoples, and not after 1935 (Mt 10:5-6, 15:24 cf. Mt 28:19, Eph 2:14).

    In God's kingdom, there are no first and second class of the believers. Whoever believes, God accepts as his child (Jn 1:12-13), a child of God (Gal 3:26, 4:6, Rom 8:15-16), born of God (1Jn 5:1, Jn 3:1-8), received the Holy Spirit (Jn 7:37-39), sealed by Christ with the Spirit (Eph 1:13-14, 2Cor 1:22), baptized and endued with the Spirit (1Cor 12:12-13), Christ dwells in him (Eph 3:17), he became the temple of the Spirit (1Cor 6:19-20). The 144,000 refer to the converted Jews; according to the Society, they cannot be Jews because the list of tribes does not match one of the Old Testament lists, but firstly, only three out of the twenty tribe lists in the Old Testament match (!), and secondly, Dan and Ephraim are missing because of idolatry. In Lk 12:32, the twelve disciples as the new Israel were indeed a "little flock" in need of trust in God's providence (see the context). From the parable before Mt 22:14, it becomes clear who the "many invited" and who the "few chosen" are; the invitees (the contemporary Jews) did not attend the royal wedding, while the guests invited from the street (the nations) receive festive clothing from their host according to the contemporary custom. The silent "guest" who only consumes but does not ask for the feast, offends the host and is justly thrown out: those who remain are the chosen ones - not the 144,000. The "other sheep" in Jn 10:16 also does not refer to JW's "earthly class", but to the nations. In Rev 7:9, the "great crowd" is indeed in heaven, "before the throne" (enopion), not merely "in the sight of" the throne (NWT), just like the 144,000 in Rev 14:3 (enopion here twice). 2Thess 2:13-14 does not talk about the 144,000 being chosen for the "participation in Christ's [heavenly] glory". The previous verses are about those who do not believe in the truth but take pleasure in falsehood, whom God therefore delivers up to delusion, and whom Satan also deceives; by contrast, the Thessalonian believers were "chosen from the beginning for salvation" by God. This is not about preselection (the eklegomai is not in the perfect tense), but about God's selection during evangelization (the haireo is in the aorist, which indicates a one-time choice between two options); the disbelief and the believer's obedience contrast with each other, there is no mention of the 144,000. 1Pt 1:5-8 does not guarantee salvation to the 144,000: Peter writes to the believers scattered throughout the world (1:1-2), reborn (1:3), who profess a faith of "equal value" to his own, who have become partakers of the divine nature through this faith, and have been saved from destruction (2Pt 1:1.4). In Heb 12:22-24, the name of the "general assembly of the firstborn" is written in the "book of life" in heaven (cf. Rev 20:11-15); if this "general assembly" referred to the 144,000, then only they would be saved - nobody else.

    The New Testament would have made clear references to the existence of heavenly and earthly classes, regarding which word, section or letter speaks about and to whom. Such references are not there, so either we have to discard the New Testament because of the shocking, misleading carelessness of the sacred writers, or the doctrine of "two classes" of salvation. Otherwise, considering the alleged privileges of the 144,000, the mass of Witnesses would unnecessarily take up the Bible, as only a fraction of it speaks about and to them. The reading of the "Watchtower" remains for the other millions of Witnesses... It is also questionable who can know how many of the 144,000 repented during the first Christian generation, and at which number the counter stood at the time of Russell and his followers?

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    @ aqwsed

    What do you think of Romans 5: 1, 9 as a simple defense of the Christian faith while talking to a JW?

    I think I will use this next cart I run across. I appears to be unrefutable.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Yes, ask them first if they have peace with God?

    They will answer yes, they have the peace of God.

    That's not what I'm asking...then turn to Roman's 5:1 (I.e. peace with God because of justification)

    Then verse 9

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    @ aqwsed

    Are you Roman Catholic?

    What do you think about this short 3 minute read about the RCC position on Justification?

    What Does the Roman Catholic Church Believe About Justification?

  • Person
    Person

    "In the years that followed, the path of the righteous ones continued to get brighter and brighter. In 1985 light was shed upon what it means to be declared righteous “for life” and righteous as a friend of God. (Romans 5:18; James 2:23)"

    w. 06 2/15 p. 30

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    @ Person,

    Thanks Person. Yes, The WT tries to prop up their 2-class system (rebellion against the free gift of Justification or Salvation) by trying to establish:

    * one salvation with the New Covenant (Justification) and another salvation without Justification

    * one salvation for the limited number sons of God, and another salvation without being a child of God - but still recognized as "friends".

    This does not line up with scripture at all. There is not one group named children (sons) who get a free gift and another group named "friends" who work for their salvation in scripture.

    Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

    Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

    The apostles only taught one way to get saved - to willingly receive it. The apostles never taught some two-class system of getting saved; otherwise Christ is of "no effect".

    The WT doctrine of "new light" is utterly destroyed in Gal. 2: 8-9:

    8 though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we (the apostles) have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

    9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


    The WT and JW's will admit that the apostles NEVER preached a two-class system of salvation.

    Yet, JW's continue to preach it anyway. They have zero fear of God. It is astonishing.

  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345

    Sea Breeze

    Yes, I am. Do you know this?

    Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    Thanks for the link. Looks lengthy. But, I will read all of it.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit