God's Holy Spirit - Contradiction?

by sincerelymine 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • sincerelymine

    Here's the backstory: A JW posted a thread in /r/DebateReligion basically allowing the community to ask him anything. Things got realer than he expected, I think. Someone brought up the failed predictions and asked if they would qualify as false prophecy(1 John 4:1). His response - copy/paste:

    I think our organization is becoming more and more refined. They did make a few wrong claims about when the end would come, but now are wisely going with exactly what the Bible says: "no one knows the day or the hour, except the Father. " We do know the end is close though. Would you agree that even in the last 20 years, things have gotten a lot worse?

    There is an important point to note here: they don't speak directly with God. They are guided by his Holy Spirit, so it is an indirect thing. They can err as well.

    So here's my thing - mostly in regards to his second paragraph. So the Governing Body is guided by God's Holy Spirit, and that makes them susceptible to error. It is my understanding that the Bible's writers were also guided by God's Holy Spirit. And that's our main reason to trust the Bible. However, it follows that the Bibles writers - guided by the same Holy Spirit - would have been susceptible to error.

    Am I hitting the target with this one? I'm interested in finding some actual WTBTS remarks about failed predictions, or that the Governing Body is susceptible to error. Also, even if I am technically right, would this argument get a JW thinking?

    I'm new around here - glad to find an active community.

  • GodZoo
  • sincerelymine

    Thanks GodZoo! I'll be lurking more :)

  • prologos
    welcome. good point it explains why the bible too is full of errors. When building a religion on such basis, errors will inevitably be compounded. wt is changing it's appearance the way you change avatars. (in your case for the better)
  • ttdtt

    You are right - this is a complete cop-out and contradiction.
    Questions to ask:
    1. If Holy Spirit can not guarantee the right course, what good is it? (a magic 8 ball would be as good)
    2. Why is HS not strong enough to make sure the right thing happens?
    3. If it is not a guarantee of the right thing happening, how do you know if your choice was ever the one HS wanted.
    4. Why was HS good enough to create the universe, make nations do gods bidding, cast out demons, heal the sick, raise the dead - but not good enough today to assure mistakes are not made.

    The most problematic things is that it is always invoked. So if something happened either HS was responsible (i.e. you chickens didn't die and had lot of baby chicks - or someone worked against HS so it could not bless them)

    The GB talks out of both sides of their mouth on this. In the same lesson they will state that there are no modern day miracles, then point to modern day miracles. They will say they are not inspired, then say that god is directing them.

    The are carful to maintain Plausible Denial in all this crap.

  • sincerelymine

    Prologos Thanks! I'm glad to be here. And yeah, that's where I'm trying to drive this thing. Either they accept that the Bible is also full of errors, or they accept that the Bible must be true and the WTBTS must not be inspired by God.

    Either way, they'll probably just get a headache and go to the meetings anyways. smdh

  • Zoos

    Let's assume for a moment that the bible IS the inerrant word of God. He used imperfect men to write it just like the governing body claims to be used (directed) by God (holy spirit) when it writes the literature.

    Inspired, directed... whatever. The claim of "truth from God" is the same.

    How many times, then, has the bible needed to be updated, changed, flip-flopped or adjusted due to new light?

    According to the scriptures, when God uses men to write something, He sees to it they get it right the first time.

    Welcome to the forum, SINCERELYMINE. Looking forward to your participation.

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    Welcome sincerelymine - I hope your lurking strengthens your resolve to continue on your learning curve and prove to yourself exactly what the WTBTS Corporation is really all about - money, not Bible truths.

    Most J.W.'s describe the G.B. & their cohorts as " just imperfect men." My own mother used to parrot this.

    Yes, imperfect men who portray themselves - falsely - as having a direct line to the C.E.O., whereas everyone else can only be helped via the call-centre!

  • fukitol

    Theres so much garbage in his response it's hard to know where to start.

    Every now and then some very arrogant JW apologetic thinks he can take on the world online but in quick time his arguments are roundly refuted and he runs for cover.

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