What crime should elders report?

by kramer 44 Replies latest jw friends

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  kramer

  So, I am trying to get my head around what the right position of elders should be when they come across crime is.

  I think I get the issuess around clergy confidentiality - and how that might potentially be breached when they talk about it to other elders, let alone the police.

  But if people are saying that elders - or clergy of another faith should report crime to the police when it is confessed to the, then where are the boundaries.

  So if someone says they should report to police on a confessed example of child abuse, that's one thing.

  How about reporting to police consensual sex between a 19year old and 15 year old - which is statutory rape in the UK

  How about criminal fraud if they come across it

  Assault on a congregant?

  Illegal immigrant status.

  I can totally understand why the elders should report confessions, but how about allegations, so not just allegations of child abuse, how about allegations of criminal fraud in the congregations, do they go with that too?

  Just trying to think through the issue, and input would be appreciated :)
• 

  menrov

  In my view it is simple. When an elder is made aware of a crime, he should tell the person that he is not authorized in this matter and that clergy confidentiality does not apply here. And then stop the discussion, tell the person to go to the police and if the person does not, tell the person that you are going to report him.

  It is like with hospitals and doctors. There is a medical confidentiality unless crime is involved (shot wound, child molestation or home violence etc). In such cases, hospital or doctor is obliged to report.

  Even if the law would not really oblige a clergy to report what is considered a crime, it should be his Christian conscience. But it all start with the clergy to say that the conversation is not subject to clergy confidentiality if the person is going to tell of a crime he committed.

  Unfortunately, many elders (WBTS and other religions) feel they are above the secular laws and even above the law of Christ and act as they are capable and serve as police officer, detective, judge, jury and...oh yes, clergy.
  
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  kramer

  Thanks Menrov, good input - I agree there is a link there with the way hospitals report

  how about then - an accusation in the congregation that somebody has pick pocketed someone else, after a prima facie examination on balance of probability, there is nothing to answer.. Do they report that to the police?

  Or one brother really beats up another brother - but the accused denies - do the Enders report the grevious bodily harm (which of course a hospital wouldn't)?
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  kramer

  I imagine that the question is how you deal with an impact on a minor - but what about the rape of an adult that the victim doesn't want to report, should the elders do that?
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  jwleaks

  In the UK the only crime the elders are encouraged to report to the authorities, in fact it is written in their procedures, is criminal vandalism committed against a kingdom hall building.
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  kramer

  How about an example where a brother is dealt with judicially on drink driving, where they were not caught by the police, should the elders report that? Does it make a difference if the car was empty, or full of minors?
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  kramer

  @jwleaks - yes, I guess for insurance purposes, it's necessary (unless they underwrite the risk themselves, not sure if they do)

  the Borg get criticised for not reporting - but I haven't seen anyone offer a comprehensive framework for how it should be (they of course should have one and make it publicly available
• 

  Phizzy

  There is no Priest Penitent confidentiality enshrined in Law here in the U.K, there has not been since the Reformation.

  I think it is the Elders duty in Law to report all crime, surely if they don't they are Accessories After the Fact ?

  Certainly it is Morally their duty when a congregant is in danger, of violence or abuse say.

  There is simply no excuse for not doing so, if the reportee is lying,( very rare), then the Police can deal with that.
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  sparky1

  You ask a very thought provoking question Kramer. I don't have an answer or even an opinion, but it is an idea that is worth considering. After all, the Governing Body teaches the every day Witness that he must report to the Elders, as authority figures,every 'so called' sin that he observes his fellow congregants involved in. 'What's good for the goose, is good for the gander'. Certainly, 'civil crimes' should be dealt with by the appropriate 'authority figures' and not just by the Elders who are only 'spiritual and moral police and judges'.
  
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  rebelfighter

  I have to say it again I much prefer the organization I am involved with we are Certified Adult Volunteers. We are required to attend a 6 to 8 hour training session per year to IDENTIFY emotional, physical and sexual abuse not to investigate or judge. We go through an extensive background check for all prior addresses. We identify and call authorities then let the people who are trained do their job. Also, a big part of our training includes if a girl comes to a male volunteer saying she has been abused by someone, HE is immediately to escort HER to a FEMALE volunteer and escuse himself. Never ever should a MALE be present when a female is discussing any form of sexual abuse. Totally INAPPROPRIATE! !

  I realize the Elders are only following orders but this has got to STOP. Since learning the JW beliefs, if I see Elders handing out literature they get some much needed training. These are children that are being damaged.