The Oneness Doctrine Refuted

by JW Answers 77 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Certainly the versus quoted in the primary posts suggest a distinction in persons in contradiction of oneness thinking. Perhaps a modalist on board would share how they explain such texts. Another one that comes to mind relates to Jesus' prayer in the garden where he requests that His Father's will take precedent over his own. A distinction in wills also suggests a distinction in persons.

  • JoenB75
    JoenB75

    A distinction of persons in a being is not really a solution to anything. Among humans is a psychological disorder. In the old testament we see attributes of God personified at times. His spirit, his strong arm etc. Such talk is not new to the new testament. Along that Jesus is called the wisdom and power of God. So we may ask the Arian or Trinitarian, if God the Father is without wisdom or power. The new thing in town is the Son. He comes along due to the incarnation / advent of Christ. God adds to himself a new existence, that explains why Jesus talks of his Father. If you come along asking, did Jesus pray to himself, you just show you do not believe a true incarnation of God but just some divine person or angel with fleshsuit on. The new existence follows that true God true man model.

  • cofty
    cofty
    Wouldn't "three people" imply "three human beings"? That's not what Trinitarians believe - Ding

    Exactly!

    I'm trying to see how trinitarians can believe in three persons but object to three people. Surely it's a distinction without a difference.

    So far we seem to agree that it isn't three people making up one god like a committee.

    And we agree with the OP that it isn't about god appearing in three disguises like modalism.

    So what is it exactly? If you can't answer the simple question without needing to resort to esoteric debates about the distinction between homoousios and homoiousios then you are probably indulging in vacuous sophistry.

    Vander - Are you knowingly ignoring my question?

  • JoenB75
    JoenB75

    Ultimately as Luther said we cant know God apart from Jesus Christ. There is a lot of mystery to God. The reformers forinstance talked of the hidden God of creation. God did choose to appear various ways or modes in the Bible.

  • cofty
    cofty

    ah the 'mystery' cop-out.

    The final refuge of charlatans everywhere.

    A blatant contradiction to rational people is a divine mystery to the superstitious.

    How is the enlightenment working out for you?

  • sir82
    sir82

    I have no dog in this race, but....

    I'm trying to see how trinitarians can believe in three persons but object to three people.

    It seems that their argument is "person" = "some sentient, rational being, in some form which may or may not be physical" while "people" = "physical human beings".

    I.e., all people are persons, but not all persons are people.

    I'm guessing here, trying to move the argument along. Personally, I think it's little more than semantic flim-flammery.

  • JoenB75
    JoenB75

    Well at least to me no sane would claim God is not a mystery. But God has revealed himself in various ways

  • cofty
    cofty

    Thanks Sir82.

    So that would still leave god as made up of a committee of three people/persons/beings as long as we add the proviso that at least two of them are ethereal.

  • James Jack
    James Jack

    You all are killing me. In layman’s terms, in brief a conclusion this is what I understand...

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    @Cofty

    I've said nothing about the Trinity, nor was it my intention to. Feel free to question me about something I've written.

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