Just been looking at posts over on reddit, with people bragging of attending the memorial under the influence. Ok fair enough I guess. But it got me thinking. Would substance abuse be higher with in the religion, due to a unhappy situation. It then becomes less prominent as the person adapts to a happier life in secular society. Or does a pot smoking JW, merely just transition into a pot smoker out side the JWs. If he was in a more peaceful state of mind in secular society, wouldn’t it be fair to assume the need for mind altering drugs would be less. Does perhaps a PIMI who has never tried drugs, become more susceptible to drug taking in order to cope with the transition into secular society. Thoughts please.
Levels of dependency both inside and outside of the JWs
by joe134cd 8 Replies latest jw experiences
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Simon
Is a pot-smoking JW really a JW or someone deluding themselves / afraid to make a hard choice?
I think the prevalence of drug taking is always going to be higher outside the group than inside it, purely because there must be some who don't partake of anything due to the religious mandates against it.
Alcohol is the main, acceptable, mind altering drug-of-choice for JWs.
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nowwhat?
90% of those on Reddit are dumbass kids. .they hate being a jw "just because"
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Disillusioned JW
"Is a pot-smoking JW really a JW ... "? Provided the person still considers herself/himself/itself a JW and is considered by the congregation to be a JW, then the answer is yes, in the same sense that a JW elder who sexually abuses his child is still a JW elder - until the religion designates him as no longer a JW elder.
Likewise a JW who habitually fornicates (unknown to the congregation) and who habitually smokes tobacco (unknown to the congregation) and who steals (unknown to the congregation) and secretly has some doctrinal beliefs which the WT considers apostate, but who thinks of herself/himself/itself as a JW, is active in field service, and attends JW meetings, is still a JW - until the religion designates the person as no longer a JW.
Yes in these examples the person is breaking major rules of the WT/JW religion, but by the definition of the religion (and also in the mind the person claiming to be a JW) the person is still a JW.
If someone answers "No" to the question of "Is a pot-smoking JW really a JW ...?", then that person is committing what is called the "No true Scotsman" fallacy. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman for more information.
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joe134cd
Simon - there are plenty of JWs afraid to make choices. They are called PIMOs.
My question is? With regards to a PIMO, who is purely involved in the religion for the sake of appearances, but doesn’t live by the tenets of the faith. Where does the susceptibility to alcohol/drug taking come in
(1) As a superficial JW (PIMO)
(2) As a person fully immersed in secularism (POMO)
(3) As the person transitions from PIMO to POMO.
One would assume that when one realises that they were in a cult, and comes into freedom of mind and thought that the need for drugs/ alcohol would become less. Unfortunately I don’t think this is the case.
Could the mandates of been a JW, at least superficially, be seen as a positive thing. My behaviour and views on certain things are a result of my JW upbringing. I’m still much the same person, with regards to the tenets of the faith, just minus the nonsense of JWisim. My health and body has benefited from this.
I agree with “nowwhat” that many on reddit are dumb ass kids. I can’t help but think that many are using the excuse of the levels of conformity in the cult as an excuse for unsavoury, reckless or bad behaviour. From what I’ve read many just transition from one set of problems in the JWs, to another in secular society.
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Disillusioned JW
joe134cd in this topic thread you seem to be excluding joining (whether physically, mentally, or both) a non-JW religion as being a type of POMO. Is that the case? Many people when they become physically out of the JW religion and mentally out of the JW religion join another religion. Thus such people are PIMI in regards to a non-JW relgion (such as Baptist, SDA, Mormon, Catholic, or nondenominational Christian or religious Buddhist) and thus not secular, even though they are POMO of the JW religion (and thus outside of the JWs). Likewise a person can be PIMO of the JW and POMI a non-JW religion. Do you wish to include those categories of people in your analysis?
For a two or more years when I was POMO of the JW religion and at the same time not yet secular I considered myself an independent Christian. While an independent Christian I believed in most of the teachings of the Church of God (Abrahamic Faith) and most the teachings of the Church of God (Seventh Day) as well as some other religious ideas, including the belief that according to the Bible women should be allowed to be deacons and elders, and that Mary Magdalene was an "apostle to the apostles".
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joe134cd
Disillusioned jw- I refer to myself as a Christian freestyler in the sense that you were an independent thinker. Btw I am catholic by denomination, but my black and white JW thinking is not so defined. One thing that has interested me over the years is those that turn to substance abuse to cope. I guess the irony is that this new freedom in secularism just enslaves them some where else. Interestingly I had a conversation with a young person regarding this. He was afraid that he might be called into a JC when spotted by local JWs smoking cigarets. I told him if he was silly enough to take up smoking, then he’s silly enough to get DFed. He’s reply was F*^ck you. This reply was telling I’m my opinion.
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Simon
If someone answers "No" to the question of "Is a pot-smoking JW really a JW ...?", then that person is committing what is called the "No true Scotsman" fallacy.
I know what you are saying, I think it's based on a fear of the example you give of someone being abusive. You don't want to let the WTS off the hook by saying "well they are not really a JW!"
But I think those are two separate things. One is whether people truly believe and follow the teachings, trying their best to live up to it. And the other is people who happen to self-identify as being a member possibly because it provides them some cover and access to people, but who's actions show they can't possibly really believe it.
Only the first is really a JW, but the latter is still the WT's responsibility for providing that environment and not policing it well enough.
Obviously smoking pot is nowhere near the same severity of crime in secular terms, and like most things in the WTS, how serious of a crime it is will depend to some extent on the individuals involved and the local congregation. But I'm not sure it's something many people who genuinely feel that they are trying to be JWs will be doing.
So I still believe that the proportion of people who smoke pot will be higher among exJWs, who know then don't want to be a JW, than those who think they do.
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joe134cd
So are you hear by saying Simon. That secularism can enslave in another sense. Are JWs happier because the society they live in takes a negative approach to drug taking.
Wouldn’t the need for mind altering drugs lessen over time as person realises the freedom that secularism offered. The ability to make decisions for oneself. I guess we could use the example of Adam and Eve, if it is to be believed. Did freedom of thought or the ability to decide for ourselves of weather drug taking was a wise decision or not lead to a better world. We must decide for ourselves