For the Disillusioned
by no-zombie 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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MeanMrMustard
This post is... accurate. Very true to the thread title. Very true.
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no-zombie
A problem for all who come to realize that our Faith is just another manmade religion, is that we start questioning everything we've previously believed. Where ultimately its possible to spiral down past believing in the Bible, to the point of questioning God's actual existence.
However while some may be happy to think of themselves now as atheists or agnostics (which I doubt that most really are, as living with the full mental and emotional consequences of being one is a lot harder than most understand), I don't think it is necessary to abandon being a spiritual person. While others might like the idea of drifting into a modern animistic philosophy (which rather conveniently excludes personal accountability), the keeping of the core teachings of Jesus has historically proven to give many people a balanced and practical moral code to live by.
But what is meant by the term: 'the core teachings of Jesus'?
Interestingly many thinkers from the enlightenment period of the late 1700s, had similar a question. Tired of the old churches, Thomas Jefferson (of US founding father fame and 3rd American president) found a rather neat solution that I feel may hold value for those of us, who may have lost all to disillusionment.
Jefferson you see, lived in a time of great turmoil and pain both in his own personal life and in the greater world around him. But the religious confusion and hypocrisy offered by the clergy in the faiths around him, stressed his personal beliefs to the point where he began to believe in a simpler Christianity based only on the pure teaching of Jesus and excluding all others, including the commentaries of the Apostles. For Jefferson, reflecting on the actual words and action of Jesus Christ, should be enough to become a unfettered Christian ... and the logic to it is sound. After all, the Apostles who guided the early church after Jesus, only became such, by doing that very thing.
So, as a part of his own mental journey, he produced two private books; one called 'The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth' which was unfortunately lost in time and the other, 'The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth', which ultimately because known as the Jefferson Bible. And it is this second one, that may be of interest to many here. Because what he did was, he got a number of Bibles and literally with a razor, re-spliced the gospel accounts into one pure chronological record of Jesus' life and sermons and discarded the rest.While I don't believe that Jefferson ever intended that 'The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth' was to become the Bible's replacement, the simplicity of focusing purely on Jesus's own words is interesting and might be helpful for those who wish to consider Jesus' teachings more philosophically and as a life guide, than that of an actual messiah. However better than another Ghandi or Budda, even Jefferson had to acknowledge that the clarity of Jesus' truths were simple enough for even a child to understand and gain befit from. Which words, have been echoed by many others, because it was and still is, true.
Thus, while our urban legend of CT Russell getting a blank note book to write down clear Bible doctrines, may be fake ... returning to the first principles principles of Christianity, by that I mean the very word of Jesus himself, could very well be a good start for us all to recover some of the balance we may have lost. -
enoughisenough
Christians are to be footstep followers of Jesus...but...it seems they want to be followers of imperfect men and when they see how bogus that turns out, they turn against Jesus instead of the blind guides that claimed to be leading them to Jesus. The Bible warned of wolves in sheep's clothing and blind guides....Pay attention and don't blame the savior if you have been fooled. The warning was before all of us.
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Phizzy
There are so many things in your O.P that are either plain wrong, or not explained with sufficient nuance.
Of course, every sane and realistic person should question what they believe, or you continue on through life believing lies and nonsense. If what you believe is Truth, it will withstand ANY scrutiny ! Truth is only established upon irrefutable facts and Evidence.
Once a person becomes a non-believer, in religious nonsense, including gods, it is not a problem, as you describe, " living with the full mental and emotional consequences of being one is a lot harder than most understand ", except at first, very soon the relief of Freedom of Mind, being a Realist, and expunging baseless fears, is so immensely wonderful, that first feeling soon fades !
I was a full on Bible believing J.W for 58 years, from birth,only when I reached the stage outlined above, after a year or two from when I initially "woke up", did I experience True Happiness, for the first time in my life !
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no-zombie
While I'm not going to get into some kind of flame-war with people here, I would like elaborate on what I wrote.
Simply put, there are only two choices a person can make ... either we believe that we are a product of God's creation ... or we evolved and are nothing more than advanced primates.
If we accept the first premise, than we have to also accept the binding task of searching for a spiritual life and that a certain standard of behavior is expected.
However if we believe in the the second premise ... then morality, marriage, societal behavior, in fact our whole understanding of right and wrong, are just unreal constructs that vary between person to person and circumstance to circumstance. We also have to accept what evolutionary psychologists say about the human species (driven purely by sex and survival) is absolutely true too. Therefore, when we read of a person rapes another, we shouldn't get upset ... no ... because that person is just doing is doing what is actually, biologically natural; driven their own sexual needs. Similarly if a person kills another person to take their resources, they are going what is natural; driven by want, through the conservation of energy.
Additionally, when bad things happen to ourselves or our family, if we are true atheists, we should just be able to write those things off, because the so-called culprits, were simply living up to their true nature ... as what happens in the various animal kingdoms.
This is what I meant when I said that being an atheist is very hard ... and when you add the whole issue of death ... for us, our children and our grandchildren, grasping fully that everyone will rot in the ground when we die, totally hopeless and ultimately forgotten, you will understand why I said that having such a 'realist' view, it is not than easy thing to process.
Thus in the end, for me its rather obvious, that you can't have the freedom of being an atheist ... without the pain that goes with it. -
TonusOH
There's a third option: admitting that you don't know.
I think that many of the discussions about the existence of god assume a specific god, and not just the possibility of a being that is responsible for the universe but does not care to inform us of its work. And why would it? Do you ever stop to explain yourself to a microscopic dust mite when you are admiring a personal accomplishment? Maybe our universe is just another in a long line of experiments, or maybe the creator does not want to interact with us. Or maybe it doesn't even know we're here. And so on.
But we get a sort of bait-and-switch, where the atheist is asked to account for the probability of the existence of any god, and then confronted with belief in a specific god. And that's not the same thing. And if the specific god being put forth doesn't make sense, it's even less convincing. I don't have to explain how or why a godless universe exists, because I am not even sure that is the case. But the gods that humanity has put forth over our existence? None of them make sense, and I can dismiss those as an option.
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Obrien
My thinking is I don't like labels, christian, atheist, boxes to put people in, I don't think it's accurate and it's limiting. Also I don't think binary thinking is accurate, it's either option A or option B doesn't work for me.
Our knowledge of our existence is so paltry, so full of unanswered questions, how can we be so certain about anything?
Jesus said a lot of good things, I think many people will agree on that. Probably the most useful part of the bible, some of the proverbs worth reading as well.
Regardless if we believe in a creation story or an evolution story, there's more to one's actions than just personal survival, there's survival of community, survival of species, these have to be factored in.
For me now, enlightenment comes from reading about the quantum world, quantum entanglement what a strange concept. The new theories on consciousness, we don't even understand how our consciousness is produced, except it's associated in some way with our physical brain.
I think the older I get, the less I'm certain about and since faith is the certainty of things unseen, I don't have it, but if I wanted the unseen and hoped for to be real to me, then I would acquire it. I think a life view with faith is a lot simpler and less complicated, and a lot of people like that.
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Balaamsass2
After 68 years of life, and being a JW for over 50 years, I have had to accept that I do not have to know everything.
I believe "god" has bigger things on his mind than me. Most modern religions are based on Abraham, a bronze-age goat herder. A guy who claimed a lot of things "god" told him secretly without any 3rd party verification, like he had to sacrifice his son for starters. Anyone doing that now would/should be hospitalized for mental illness.
Being a parent, and grandparent, and then seeing the first Hubble deep field photos (countless galaxies and solar systems), had a deep impact on my beliefs. I wish only good things for my family, I have never knowingly allowed them to be harmed, however, I do not/can not protect them from every bad experience.
Watchtower and most Bronze Age religions painted "God" as a petty mean mean-spirited entity... the same one ISIS radicals worship. Acceptance of these things has been freeing. My 2 cents.
https://science.nasa.gov/mission/hubble/science/universe-uncovered/hubble-deep-fields/