"The founding of the world"

Yalbadaoth

Why are WT determined to relate the "founding of the world" to Abel and "before the founding of the world" to a period before Abel but after Adam's sin? There seems like a lot of twisting of verses and words to prove a point which always makes me suspicious of their motives! (I have my own take on it but would like to hear others). Thanks.

BelisemDeBelimakom

Yes, the motives are the issue here. The Bible can say anything they want with the "magic" words:

nwtsty Matthew Study Notes - 25:34

founding of the world: The Greek word for “founding” is rendered “to conceive” at Heb 11:11, where it is used with “offspring.” Here used in the expression “founding of the world,” it apparently refers to the conception and birth of children born to Adam and Eve. Jesus associates “the founding of the world” with Abel, evidently the first redeemable human of the world of mankind whose name was written in the scroll of life from “the founding of the world.”—Lu 11:50, 51; Re 17:8.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

from the foundation of the world. The place itself, where this happiness is to be enjoyed, was actually made on the first day of the creation, when the heavens were formed, and the foundations of the earth were laid, and the glory itself long before. The Ethiopic version here reads, "before the world"; and the Persic, "before the foundation of the world was laid"; and Grotius himself owns, that the phrase is the same as "before the foundation of the world"; and Dr. Hammond's paraphrase is, "before all eternity": for as early were these persons, the beloved, the chosen, and blessed of the Father: so that this glory must be of free grace, and not merit, or owing to any works of righteousness done by men; since it was not only designed and appointed, but prepared and laid up for persons before they had a being, and had done neither good nor evil. The Jews (e) speak of the law being an inheritance for all Israel, from the six days of the creation; but a much more glorious one is here spoken of: nearer to this is what they say (f) that Bathsheba was appointed to be David's wife from the day that the world was created; and add, but the mystery of the thing is, , "the kingdom that is above", which is called by her name. So in 2 Esdras, "the kingdom is already prepared for you":

Rocketman123

You need to twist stories to create something to appear factual, the mythological writings in Genesis is a story which was told from people who were inherently ignorant to how the world actually came to be.

menrov

All verses with "Foundation of the world". It is OBVIOUS :-) or EVIDENT that since the foundation of the world does not have to mean the conception and birth of the Cain and Abel. Further, WT refers to Luke 11:50, in which I ask which generation do they mean here. CLEARLY the overlapping one. Anyway, enjoy.

Rev 13:8 and all those who live on the earth will worship the beast, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life belonging to the Lamb who was killed.

1Pe 1:20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was manifested in these last times for your sake.

Luk 11:50 so that this generation may be held accountable for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world,

Mat 13:35 This fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet: “I will open my mouth in parables, I will announce what has been hidden from the foundation of the world.”

Eph 1:4 For he chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and blameless before him in love.

Rev 17:8 The beast you saw was, and is not, but is about to come up from the abyss and then go to destruction. The inhabitants of the earth – all those whose names have not been written in the book of life since the foundation of the world – will be astounded when they see that the beast was, and is not, but is to come.

Mat 25:34 Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my anger, ‘They will never enter my rest!’” And yet God’s works were accomplished from the foundation of the world.

Heb 9:26 for then he would have had to suffer again and again since the foundation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the consummation of the ages to put away sin by his sacrifice.

Joh 17:24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, so that they can see my glory that you gave me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

Yalbadaoth

BelisemDeBelimakom

WT use Heb 4: 3 to link the "founding of the world" to a point after creation's completion. What would you make of that?

slimboyfat

The JW reading “founding of the world” to the beginning of humanity seems reasonable enough to me.

What else does it mean? The physical creation of the planet? I suppose it could, but not necessarily a more obvious reading than the JW reading.

Yalbadaoth

slimboyfat it's more the fact that they place that point - "the beginning of humanity" - with the birth of Abel, rather than with Adam and Eve. As far as I can see, that is so they can then place "before the founding of the world" at some point after Adam's sin but before Abel's birth. Otherwise, they have a problem with scriptures that say things like Christ's role as redeemer and the heavenly calling were "foreknown before the founding of the world" because, that would place it before Adam and Eve sinned. Remember, to JWs, Christ as redeemer and the 144,000 was just a back up plan that came into effect after Adam's sin.

Sea Breeze

YBD,

You are right. The god that JW's imagine could not have possibly purposed that from before creation he knew that he would incarnate himself and die for his children to pay the penalty for their unbelief.

For the JW, the first couple sinned and God was fretting, "Oh dear, what am I going to do now? I know, I'll sacrifice Michael. "

"The founding of the world"

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