No one can believe the entire bible because it clearly contradicts itself in many cases. The God from the Old Testament doesn't resemble the God that Jesus portrayed in the gospels at all. Even though JWs say that they believe the entire bible they use clever mental acrobatics and speculation to gloss over the contradictions.
What is the alternative to JW?
by Formerbrother 475 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Formerbrother
No one can believe the entire bible because it clearly contradicts itself in many cases. The God from the Old Testament doesn't resemble the God that Jesus portrayed in the gospels at all. Even though JWs say that they believe the entire bible they use clever mental acrobatics and speculation to gloss over the contradictions.
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Sounds like an excuse to me, I still say either believe all the Bible or non of it.
At least the JWs are the only ones who believe all of it.
Others say they do, but when it comes to men laying with men, or the blood issue, then that is what sorts the true religion from the false.
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Formerbrother
It doesn't matter if Catholics, Anglicans, Mormons or JWs have printed or translated more bibles than anyone else. Most so called Christians believe that they will go to heaven... some believe they will live on earth forever. Both require belief in a God that created humans to suffer and die.
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This is an easy one that any ex JW could answer. Its all about the issue of universal sovereignty who has got the right to rule.
The rebellion in Eden was a challenge for independent rule from God.
Jehovah could have just wiped everybody out and started again, or give them time to prove independent rule from him will not work.
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Formerbrother
Hi Former Brother , just to let you know that the figures about foreign language Bible translation are on the " What is Truth ? " thread .
Jan
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Thanks Jan.
There is no debate at all about this, NOBODY comes even close to the translation numbers of th JWs presently.
In the past of course they did, JWs are only around 100 years old.
But today, its not even close, the translation work of the JWs is like comparing Rolls Royce with Form when comparing JWs to Catholics or Anglicans, or any other religion who translates Bible literature.
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Formerbrother
Formerbrother, I read a lot of the thread but not all, it's really long. I never saw anyone discuss the post Sparky1 made on page 11 about the Seventh Day Adventists. They really do get the word out there. Do they go door to door, I don't think so, but I also don't believe the bible limits preaching to only a single method as I'm sure you know the witnesses agree with. Witnesses use multiple methods to reach what they consider right hearted ones.
I'm glad you're here and hope you keep posting. I researched for a looooooong time before I was able to finally realize that what my family had believed for several generations was not what I believed. I remained an active witness during my searching period and it cost me a lot physically and mentally once I realized that I felt the witnesses didn't actually teach what the bible teaches.
There are some fantastic older threads where this board discusses in great detail blood transfusions, idol meat, door to door witnessing, destruction of Jerusalem in 607, cross versus stake, disfellowshipping....well, you get the point. Dig deep for the spiritual gems.
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Thank you, I am determined to find fault with the JWs any possible way. I just havent been successful as of yet.
The seventh day adventists do not come anywhere near to fulfilling all the requirements that Jws do.
They do not preach to ALL the nations, or if they do its on a tiny scale in comparison to JWs.
Of all the other things you mentioned, can you be specific in one area and give a clear to the point answer as to who is closer to the truth than Jws and why?
I know this thread is long, but there has been no answer yet.
The closest has been the Mormons, they do preach in twos to all the nations. But then they fall short in many other areas.
There is no way Catholics, Anglicans, or seventh day adventists come closer to the entire Bible than JWs.
Who else is there that has not yet been debunked already in this thread?
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Formerbrother
Who else aprt from JW's really go by the entire Bible, ALL of it in its entirety? REALLY?
James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
A really good explanation of this scripture from The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges:
Pure religion] The word still presents the outward aspect of the devout life. Better perhaps, pure worship.
undefiled] The term seems chosen with special reference to the Pharisee’s scrupulous care to avoid anything that caused ceremonial defilement. Comp. Joh_18:28, “lest they should be defiled,” where the word is that commonly used in the LXX. for polluted, or being “unclean,” as in Lev_5:3; Lev_11:23. St James reproduces the teaching of our Lord, that the real defilement comes from within, not from without, that true purity is found in “giving alms of such things as we have” (Mar_7:20-23, Luk_11:40).
before God and the Father] The last word seems chosen with a special reference to the duty that follows. We worship the Father when we are like Him in our care for the orphans (Psa_68:5).
To visit] The Greek word implies somewhat more than that which we commonly attach to the English; “to care for,” “look after,” as in “God hath visited his people” (Luk_7:16).
Are you sure you want to stand by that statement of yours?
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JWs are fullfilling this scripture better than any others. We are constantly encouraged to look after fatherless boys, orphans and widows. Even more encouraged to remain unspotted and unblemished from the world.
What point are you making, are you saying the JWs are leaving this scripture out or something? Nothing could be further from the truth.
Yes I am very sure I want to stand by that statement.
Are you sure that you want to stand by your statement that JWs somehow leave this scripture out?
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Formerbrother
Doubtfully Yours7 days ago
The alternative to being a JW.... Hmmmm... Please allow me to fantasize....
Weekdays: Waking up each day without being concerned with reading a 'daily text' with Biblical passages and all, which takes up a good 15 mins. Just being able to wake up, exercise, shower then dress up and get to work would be nice.
Not being concerned with giving a 'good witness' to co-workers, or looking awkward when someone sneezes. Participating in as many holiday/charity/etc.-related activities with co-workers; I work with a very fun and active bunch. Ohhh.... would be so very nice.
Leaving work peacefully and not having to rush home with food picked up along the way and get ready for an awful boring religious meeting; such waste of precious time. So much better to spend a few days stopping at the gym right after work, or just arriving home peacefully to unwind, cook a meal together, watch favorite shows, take pets to park/beach, prepare for work next day, etc. Just freaking relax.... REEEELAX! That would be so nice.
Weekends: Sleep or hang around in bed for as long as one wishes without being concerned with rushing to get ready for 'service' or a religious meeting. Make breakfast and start the morning nicely while outlining the plan for the day, be it do house/yard work, hobbies/gym/etc. When it is all said and done, enjoy a movie or some entertainment event of personal choice. Ohhh... would be nice.
DY😊
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Sounds like a very fulfilling purposeful life right there mate,
NOT!!!!!!
When you grow old and look back on your life you will think, what was the point of that? What is the purpose of life. Old Jws die very happy and contented, not fearing death at all. Because this is not the real life.
It must be very hard for those who leave the turht. It would have been better if you had never known the truth.
A bit like that rebel in the Matrix films, he says to the Agent, "I want to remember nothing" "nothing!"
You can never go back to the matrix.
All the ex JWs are desperate to think of an alternative. Anything,, evolution, agnostic, hell even some other false religion part of Babylon the great.
This is the point of this thread, which other option? After all the many replies, there has not been one clear concise answer.
I think its because the truth is clear.
Oh and by the way, you cant go back to the Matrix, but once you know the truth you can be free of Satans lies.
Come back to Jehovah and study the Bible with an open mind. Think for yourself, read the bible everyday, your relationship the the creator Jehovah God is nobody else business, its between you and him.
But do not deceive yourself with the lies and propaganda that is much of the nonsense on this forum.
PS.
Can anybody answer my original question with a clear satisfying answer? If Jws have not got the truth, then -What is the alternative?
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punkofnice
FB - I still say either believe all the Bible or non of it.
Just to play devils advocate here, the JW leaders say you shouldn't have a tattoo because the scripture at Leviticus 19:28. The reasoning when I was an elder was always Malachi 3:6...Jehovah doesn't change.
That being so, and using Leviticus as a scripture where god doesn't change, I hope that all JWs follow ALL of the following:-
1. Burning any yeast or honey in offerings to God (2:11) [Normal penalty.]
2. Failing to include salt in offerings to God(2:13) [Normal penalty.]
3. Eating fat (3:17) [That one’s “a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live.” All fat is to be saved for offerings to God. Normal penalty.]
4. Eating blood (3:17) [Normal penalty]
5. Failing to testify against any wrongdoing you’ve witnessed (5:1) [“They will be held responsible.”]
6. Failing to testify against any wrongdoing you’ve been told about (5:1) [Which sounds like hearsay. At any rate, “they shall be held responsible.”]
7. Touching an unclean animal (5:2) [NIV translates this as touching “the carcass” of an unclean animal. So if Rover dies, or you’re a worker in a pork plant, you’re in trouble here. Normal penalty.]
8. Carelessly making an oath (5:4) [Even if you don’t realize you have. Normal penalty.]
9. Deceiving a neighbour about something trusted to them (6:2) [Return the item and a 20% penalty, plus normal penalty.]
10. Finding lost property and lying about it (6:3) [Return the item and a 20% penalty, plus normal penalty.]
11. Bringing unauthorised fire before God (10:1) [God will smite you.]
12. Letting your hair become unkempt (10:6) [“You will die” and God will be angry at everyone. May only apply to the priesthood.]
13. Tearing your clothes (10:6) [“You will die” and God will be angry at everyone. May only apply to the priesthood.]
14. Drinking alcohol in holy places (bit of a problem for Catholics, this ‘un) (10:9) [“You will die.” May only apply to the priesthood.]
15. Eating an animal which doesn’t both chew cud and has a divided hoof (cf: camel, rabbit, pig) (11:4-7) [“You will be unclean.]
16. Touching the carcass of any of the above (problems here for rugby) (11:8) [“You will be unclean.”]
17. Eating – or touching the carcass of – any seafood without fins or scales(11:10-12) [“You will be unclean.”]
18. Eating – or touching the carcass of – eagle, the vulture, the black vulture, the red kite, any kind of black kite, any kind of raven, the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat. (11:13-19) [“You will be unclean.”]
19. Eating – or touching the carcass of – flying insects with four legs, unless those legs are jointed (11:20-22) [“You will be unclean.”]
20. Eating any animal which walks on all four and has paws (good news for cats) (11:27) [“You will be unclean.” Also applies to touching their carcasses.]
21. Eating – or touching the carcass of – the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard,the gecko, the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink and the chameleon (11:29) [“You will be unclean.”]
22. Eating – or touching the carcass of – any creature which crawls on many legs, or its belly (11:41-42) [“You will be unclean.”]
23. Going to church within 33 days after giving birth to a boy (12:4) [Actually, she’s unclean a week, and then another 33 days. Then she has to offer up a sacrifice.]
24. Going to church within 66 days after giving birth to a girl (12:5) [Actually, she’s unclean a week, and then another 66 days. Then she has to offer up a sacrifice.]
25. Having sex with your mother (18:7) [The penalty for all the sexual sins in ch. 18 is that the participants are to be “cut off” from their people. Some have additional penalties mentioned below.]
26. Having sex with your father’s wife (18:8) [In 20:11, both are to be put to death.]
27. Having sex with your sister (18:9) [In 20:17, if you marry her, both are to be “publicly removed from their people”]
28. Having sex with your granddaughter (18:10)
29. Having sex with your half-sister (18:11)
30. Having sex with your biological aunt (18:12-13) [In 20:19, he will be held responsible for the dishonor.]
31. Having sex with your uncle’s wife (18:14) [In 20:20, they are held responsible for the dishonor, “they will die childless”]
32. Having sex with your daughter-in-law (18:15) [In 20:12, both are to be put to death.]
33. Having sex with your sister-in-law (18:16) [In 20:21, if you marry her, “they will be childless.”]
34. Having sex with a woman and also having sex with her daughter or granddaughter (bad news for Alan Clark) (18:17) [No specific penalty given, but per 20:14 if you marry both of them, all three of you are to be “burned in fire.”]
35. Marrying your wife’s sister while your wife still lives (18:18)
36. Having sex with a woman during her period (18:19) [15:24 simply says the man will be considered unclean for 7 days. In 20:18, “Both of them are to be cut off from their people”]
37. Having sex with your neighbour’s wife (18:20) [In 20:10, both are to be put to death.]
38. Giving your children to be sacrificed to Molek (18:21) [In 20:2, the person is to be stoned to death.]
39. Having sex with a man “as one does with a woman” (18:22) [In 20:13, both are to be put to death.]
40. Having sex with an animal (18:23) [In 20:15, both are to be killed.]
41. Making idols or “metal gods” (19:4) [No penalty given.]
42. Reaping to the very edges of a field (19:9) [To be left for the poor. No penalty given.]
43. Picking up grapes that have fallen in your vineyard (19:10) [To be left for the poor. No penalty given.]
44. Stealing (19:11) [No penalty given.]
45. Lying (19:11) [No penalty given.]
46. Swearing falsely on God’s name (19:12) [No penalty given.]
47. Defrauding your neighbour (19:13) [No penalty given.]
48. Holding back the wages of an employee overnight (not well observed these days) (19:13) [No penalty given.]
49. Cursing the deaf or abusing the blind (19:14) [No penalty given.]
50. Perverting justice, showing partiality to either the poor or the rich(19:15) [No penalty given.]
51. Spreading slander (19:16) [No penalty given.]
52. Doing anything to endanger a neighbour’s life (19:16) [No penalty given.]
53. Seeking revenge or bearing a grudge (19:18) [No penalty given.]
54. Mixing fabrics in clothing (19:19) [No penalty given.]
55. Cross-breeding animals (19:19) [No penalty given.]
56. Planting different seeds in the same field (19:19) [No penalty given.]
57. Sleeping with another man’s slave (19:20) [“Due punishment,” but not death, just a ram for sacrifice.]
58. Eating fruit from a tree within four years of planting it (19:23) [No penalty given. May only apply to fruit trees planted in Israel.]
59. Practising divination or seeking omens (tut, tut astrology) (19:26) [No penalty, but in 20:6 they will be “cut off from their people” by God. In 20:27, they are to be stoned to death.]
60. Trimming your beard (19:27) [No penalty given.]
61. Cutting your hair at the sides (19:27) [No penalty given.]
62. Getting tattoos (19:28) [No penalty given.]
63. Making your daughter prostitute herself (19:29) [“The land will turn to prostitution.” No other penalty given.]
64. Turning to mediums or spiritualists (19:31) [No penalty given.]
65. Not standing in the presence of the elderly (19:32) [No penalty given.]
66. Mistreating foreigners – “the foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born” (19:33-34) [No penalty given.]
67. Using dishonest weights and scales (19:35-36) [No penalty given.]
68. Cursing your father or mother (punishable by death) (20:9) [Death, as noted.]
69. Marrying a prostitute, divorcee or widow if you are a priest (21:7,13) [No penalty given.]
70. Entering a place where there’s a dead body as a priest (21:11) [I.e., if you’re a priest. No penalty given.]
71. Slaughtering a cow/sheep and its young on the same day (22:28) [May apply only to sacrificial animals. No penalty given.]
72. Working on the Sabbath (23:3) [No penalty given.]
73. Blasphemy (punishable by stoning to death) (24:14) [Death.]
74. Inflicting an injury; killing someone else’s animal; killing a person must be punished in kind (24:17-22) [Killing someone means death. Injuring someone mean punishment in kind. Killing or injuring another’s animal means punishment in kind.]
75. Selling land permanently (25:23) [No penalty given.]
76. Selling an Israelite as a slave (foreigners are fine) (25:42) [No penalty given.] -
DesirousOfChange
Former Brother must be pioneering this month.
I'm shocked, but have to remind myself that I was just as deluded not all that long ago.
(Hope you get your hours!)
Doc
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OrphanCrow
FormerBrother: There is no debate at all about this, NOBODY comes even close to the translation numbers of th JWs presently.
In the past of course they did, JWs are only around 100 years old.
But today, its not even close, the translation work of the JWs is like comparing Rolls Royce with Form when comparing JWs to Catholics or Anglicans, or any other religion who translates Bible literature.Of course there is no debate. The numbers tell the story.
The Bible Societies have 542 translations of the Bible in circulation (not including digital).
The JWs have "over 120" translations of the Bible. (...and still no Spanish translation of the Silver Sword..???)
For some global figures and other interesting things...
The JWs can't hold a candle to these numbers:
The Digital Bible Library® (DBL) is central to our strategy to make the Bible as widely and easily accessible as possible. In 2014 it passed a significant milestone and ended the year with 1,014 Bibles, Testaments and portions in 816 languages. These languages are spoken by over 4 billion people.