Is the Bible Hate literature? Canadian Legislation

by Uzzah 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • Uzzah
    Uzzah

    This will be interesting to watch as it develops....

    http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2003/09/17/195235.html Religious groups fear new bill By Kathleen Harris - Sun Media

    OTTAWA -- MPs face another political hot potato today with a vote on a controversial bill religious groups fear will outlaw the Bible. Bill C-250 would include sexual orientation into Canada's hate propaganda law that already bans inciting hatred against an "identifiable" group.

    "We think that it will threaten scriptures. We think it has the potential of making the Bible an illegal document ...," said Charles McVety, president of Canadian Christian College. "In the worst-case scenario, those who stand in their pulpits and preach a message against sex outside of marriage could be imprisoned."

    But NDP MP Svend Robinson, the sponsor of C-250, accused Christian lobby groups of "fearmongering" and said an amendment from Liberal MP Derek Lee explicitly protects the expression of opinion based on religious text.

  • Yizuman
    Yizuman

    I'm pretty sure all you liberals would love to see that in the US as well as in the UK.

    Next up on the liberal agenda...

    Shutting down churches

    Banning Prayers and Worship

    Imprisoning Christians and putting them to death

    Did I miss anything?

    Yiz

  • Double Edge
    Double Edge
    Did I miss anything?

    No, I think you covered it all....

  • ashitaka
    ashitaka

    Outlawing the bible would never happen. Outlawing actions that come from bigoted teachings is another thing. I am thinking that the line is being drawn in the sand as to encouraging actions based on teaching, not outlawing the teachings.

    Say you have a church, and in the pulpit, some fiery preacher denounces Gays as being from the devil. He reads a bunch of scriptures about the men of old stoning sinners, etc. You then have some brainwashed people, extremists, who will take this and use it, not to use in their own lives, but to push it on other people, making lives harder for whatever specific group they are targeting (abortionists, gays, unmarried couples who have sex).

    Why do you think there are still hate murders? Because extremists use that religous privilige to get away with encouraging bigots to action. Just think about protests in front of abortion clinics. At the very least, those types of people are exposing the people who go for an abortion to even more trauma then they would originally have.

    Religion should not preach exclusion. It should preach tolorance. The Jesus in the bible would never preach to hurt people, only to love them. It's a damn shame that people who read the rest of the bible decide to act on hate because of that. That's where the law comes in.

    The last thing humans need is more things that divide us. Love should be the only religion worth following, and the only doctrine that is preached from the pulpits.

    ash

  • Yizuman
    Yizuman
    Religion should not preach exclusion. It should preach tolorance. The Jesus in the bible would never preach to hurt people, only to love them. It's a damn shame that people who read the rest of the bible decide to act on hate because of that. That's where the law comes in.

    Oh you're much nicer than God?

    Nicer than God

    There is a standard of niceness in the church that even Jesus failed to achieve. The attitude and behavior of God as compared with today's churches reveals today's believers as far more polite, tolerant, understanding, and respectful to the wicked. Today's church is less offensive, rude, and sarcastic than either God or God’s men in the Bible. No highly esteemed Christian leader would ever be caught today mocking the wicked as did God’s men in the Bible.

    Modern Christians think they have failed if the world hates them, but Jesus promised his followers, “Ye shall be hated of all nations for My name’s sake. And then shall many be offended” (Mat. 24:9-10). Jesus also said, ‘If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you” (Jn 15:18-19; 17:14; Mat. 10:22; Luke 21:17).

    Jesus offended most people; therefore, we can conclude that the behavior of Jesus was at some point offensive to almost everyone who spent much time around Him. Jesus offered evidence to John the Baptist of His Messiahship: the blind see, the lame walk and the majority were offended by Him (Mat. 11:2-19). Jesus quipped, “Blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in Me” (Mat. 11:6; Luke 7:23). In Galilee, Jesus did not plead with his neighbors to understand Him when they were offended at Him (Mat. 13:57; Mark 6:3). Jesus also instructed his disciples to do things that would be offensive to those needing salvation: for example, “Shake off the dust of your feet” (Mat. 10:14). The bottom line is that Jesus offended unbelievers (cf. Luke 14:3-4; John 5:8-16).

    According to modern social etiquette, Jesus can be labeled as rude and socially undesirable. Community leaders asked Jesus, “Who gave thee this authority?” Christ did not answer. Rather, He asked them a question, and when they failed to answer, Jesus told them He wouldn't answer their question (Mat. 21:23-27; cf. Luke 22:67, John 12:34-36). Jesus often allowed His hearers to misconstrue His words and let people walk away in unbelief without running after them (John 2:18-22). If the hearer was prone to stumble and rebel at truth, Jesus let him. In fact, Jesus is quoted as saying, “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still; he which is filthy, let him be filthy still” (Rev. 22:11).

    Christ’s own approach is no longer considered in keeping with today's concepts of Christian conduct. Biblically speaking, however, offending the religious but lost crowd can be in keeping with the most noble of

    Christian character. For example, God utterly forbade drinking blood (Lev. 3:17; 17:14). Israelites from priests to Pharisees to average citizens were in various ways keen on “keeping the Law.” Therefore, when Jesus stated in John 6:54, “Whoso drinketh My blood hath eternal life,” the words were repugnantly offensive to his listeners. Further, Christ made no effort whatsoever to clarify Himself. In fact, on another occasion, Jesus knew he had offended religious leaders by what he said in their presence only to turn around and privately criticize them even more for their indignation at His words (Mat 15:7-14). At times, Jesus offended even His own followers, and He poignantly asked them, “Doth this offend you?” (John 6:61). Each time Jesus offended someone, he didn't preface himself by stating, "I'm saying this in Christian love." Rather, He let the offense work its ministry in the hearts of the offended.

    Many believers do not know that Jesus used a metaphor as a threat against unbelievers. Jesus is the Rock, and Christ said that on whom the Rock falls, it will grind him to powder (Mat. 21:44; Luke 20:18). Even the Heavenly Father called the Son the “rock of offense” (Isa. 8:14; Rom. 9:33; 1 Pet. 2:8). In a parable, Jesus expressed His rock hard intolerance of the unrepentant by saying, “But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me” (Luke 19:27). The parable is like the warnings in Isaiah, “For the Lord G od shall slay thee” (Isa. 65:15) “and the slain of the L ord shall be many” (Isa. 66:16). Even, king David, a man after God's own heart warned, “The fool hath said in his heart, ‘There is no God’” (Ps. 53:1), and David’s warning should be heeded.

    Ironically, 21 st century Christians would condemn Jesus Christ as unloving, uncaring, and unchrist-like if He personally ministered amid our modern society. For example, the Apostles of Jesus asked Him, “Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?” (Mat. 15:12). Today’s Christians would respond, “Oh no. There must be a misunderstanding. Go quickly and apologize! Ask for forgiveness! Tell them we are sorry. We never meant to offend. We don’t want to make people feel uncomfortable in our services. Tell them we welcome everybody with love.” In contrast, Jesus firmly commanded His Apostles to ignore the whining or hostile complaints of unbelievers: “Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind” (Mat. 15:14). Jesus also called men and women fools when appropriate, but never without a cause (Mat. 23:17, 19; 25:2-8; Luke 11:40; 12:20; Mat. 5:22). The apparent lack of Jesus’ methodology in modern ministries is an indication that He is indeed not present or is unwelcome in the majority of contemporary churches.

    Ridicule can and does save lives. The public service message, “Pot Heads on Jeopardy,” mocks people who cannot even remember their own names after drug abuse. This and other Ad Council sponsored messages run on Christian broadcasting stations and receive no criticism for being unloving or unkind even though the ads ridicule victims of drug abuse. Sadly, hypocrites accept pagans using peer pressure to stigmatize “pot heads,” while rejecting and condemning Christians using mockery and ridicule to stigmatize fornication, adultery, or homosexuality.

    God and God’s men sometimes ministered through ridicule, humor, sarcasm, and mockery. God mocked idolaters who cut down a tree branch to make a god to worship with one half of the branch and a fire to cook lunch with the other half (Is. 44:14-17). God also mocked those who carved an idol of stone in hopes that it would awaken and hear their prayers (Hab. 2:18-19). The prophet Elijah, prior to executing 450 prophets of Baal, derided them with taunts. Elijah heckled the false prophets to yell louder to their god so that he could hear their prayers since their god was either on a trip, sleeping or in the restroom (1 Ki. 18:27; and 2 Ki. 6:8-20; Hebrew, “private place”).

    King Herod beheaded John the Baptist because of John’s relentless and hardnosed protesting against the government leader’s adultery (Luke 3:19; Mat. 14:3-4; Mark 6:17-18; Lev. 18:16; 20:21; Luke 3:19). Jesus warned of the sinfulness of Herod (Mark 8:15). When advised, “Herod will kill thee,” Jesus did not claim that there had been a misunderstanding of His teaching. Instead, Christ resolutely responded without respect, “Go ye, and tell that fox, ‘Behold, I cast out devils’…” (Luke 13:31-32).

    The Gospels use the exceptionally harsh term hypocrite twenty-three times. Christ even called the Pharisees blind guides (Mat. 23:16, 24) and sons of hell (Mat. 23:15) and He told them, “Ye are of your father the devil” (John 8:44). Christ also severely insulted the scribes (Mat. 5:20; 21:15; 23:2-3, 13-15, 23-29; Mark 12:38-40; Luke 11:44). Jesus said to Peter “Get thee behind me, Satan” (Mat. 16:23). Jesus also warned that the two-faced worker would be chopped in half and sent to hell (Mat. 24:49-51). Jesus spoke patently offensive and bludgeoning words, but today's religious teachers scold or curse His followers for merely acting like Jesus. In contrast to contemporary churches, God blesses those who rebuke the wicked (Prov. 24:25).

    To shirk biblical Christian responsibility, many modern believers repeat the false notion that Jesus only criticized religious leaders. On the contrary, Christ made a whip and attacked corrupt merchants and bankers calling them thieves (Mat. 21:12-13; Mark 11:15-17; Luke 19:45-46; John 2:14:15). When one lawyer spoke up to defend those of his profession, Jesus responded with broad intolerance and condemned lawyers as a group (Luke 11:45-46, 52). Jesus referred to both a woman seeking his help and to homosexuals as “dogs” (Mat. 7:6; 15:26; Deut. 23:17-18; Ps. 22:16; 59:5-6; Phil. 3:2; Rev. 22:15). Jesus also instructed Christians to not cast their pearls before swine (Mat. 7:6). In addition, Jesus aimed the term “hypocrite” toward:

    Any person who rebukes another yet sins in like manner (Mat. 7:5)

    Herodians (advocates compromising biblical morals for political gain; Mat. 22:16-18)

    The Unrepentant (Mat. 24:51)

    Multitudes of People (Luke 12:54-56)

    In efforts to evangelize internal revenue agents of His day, Christ hurled cutting comments against tax collectors and His sharp words motivated some of them to repent (Mat. 5:46; 18:17; 21:31; Luke 19:2-9).

    In the King James Bible, God describes seductive women among the people of God as worse than “whores” (Ezek. 16:33). The Bible uses such crude terminology dozens of times. “Whoremonger,” the rawest English term denoting a promiscuous man, is used to describe those who use whores (1 Tim. 1:10; Heb. 13:4; Rev. 21:8; 22:15). God refers to other sinners in terms of filthy excrement (Isa. 64:6) and worse (2 Ki. 18:27; Isa. 36:12), yet feminized believers try to sanitize God’s Word from such remarks.

    God does not reserve painful comments just for non-Christians. For example, God used sarcasm to stigmatize destructive behavior and prod church people toward righteousness (1 Cor. 4:14). Paul was moved by the Spirit of God to use dripping sarcasm to tell the Corinthians that they did not need his counsel because they were full, rich, wise, strong, distinguished, and successful --- all without Paul’s help (1 Cor. 4:8, 10). The reality of the Corinthians was the opposite of what Paul sarcastically described, and they did need his help. Paul also fell short of today’s overly compassionate Christianity when he wanted the government to minister terror, wrath and vengeance against criminals (Rom. 13:3-4). The Apostle also erred in contemporary standards by calling unbelievers and the Galatians fools (Rom. 1:22; Gal. 3:1, 3).

    The foulness of the heart and soul of mortal man is why the Bible never states, “Hate the sin, and love the sinner.” God’s Word proclaims, “As he thinketh in his heart, so is he” (Prov. 23:7). Where does the guilt of a rapist reside: on his skin, in his hands, or in his soul? If God could separate the sin from the sinner, then He could let everyone into heaven and simply cast sin into hell. A man embodies his sin because man is inherently evil by fallen nature. Since the actual action of rape cannot be punished, God punishes the rapist. Remember, “It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God” (Heb. 10:31).

    Ignorance quotes, "Hate the sin, but love the sinner," yet Scripture teaches otherwise. God hates not only the sin, but “all workers of iniquity” (Ps 5:5). “The Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man” (Ps 5:6). Also, “The wicked and him that loveth violence his [God’s] soul hateth” (Ps 11:5). “The face of the Lord is against them yhat do evil” (Ps 34:16). “Thou [O Lord] lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness” (Ps. 45:7). “The L ord hates” six things including a “heart that devisesth wicked imaginations… a false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren” (Prov. 6:16-19).

    For humanity, biblical love always operates within the confines of God’s laws. Paul wrote in the New Testament, “Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil” (Rom. 12:9). “Abhor” means to hate, loathe, and act repulsed. Hypocritical love, however, fails to abhor, rebuke and condemn. Someone nicer than God may declare, “I love everyone.” If we ask him, “Do you love the rapist," he may reply, “Of course.” “Do you love the child-molester?” “Yes!” “Do you love Adolf Hitler? Do you love the devil? Do you love God?” Such a man says, “I love God,” and with the same mouth, “I love the child molester.” How can you rightly love God and the devil when the Bible teaches no such doctrine? Abhor evil, else your love is hypocrisy.

    God uses diverse methods to communicate the Gospel to people in varied depths of depravity. At times, a Christian may gently pray with an unbeliever who is showing remorse over sin. At other times, a believer might ridicule the unrepentant in hopes of waking him up. Scripture does teach to make a distinction by having compassion on some people who are already broken spirited before God, but for “others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh” (Jude 1:22-23). It is a paradox, but a strong believer can hate the unrepentant sinner while having compassion or enough love to confront him with the Truth of his sinfulness. During the construction of the first stone Temple of God, the builders stumbled upon and rejected the chief cornerstone of that Temple; and it was only after they were confronted by the gaping truth of the matter that they made an earnest search to find the ill-favored cornerstone. Jesus Christ is the cornerstone, and we are to be living temples to God (Eph 2:20; 1 Pet 2:6; 2 Cor 6:16). Sadly, most people have rejected the Jesus Christ recorded in the Bible and have continued to build their lives without having their wayward condition solidly confronted with the Truth; and as a result, they continue to religiously stumble toward the grave and to what looks like a smoother and more preferred path.

    The heart of the hypocrite swells in pride to condemn faithful believers, even though his own judgment is only a heartbeat away. Sadly, many Christians enjoy replying to such opposition by quoting, “No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper,” yet they shudder at the rest of the verse: “Every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn” (Isa. 54:17). Jesus taught that even the men of Nineveh will rise in their judgment and condemn unbelievers (Mat. 12:41). Jesus once opened a thought by saying, “For God so loved the world,” but in closing said, “he that believeth not is condemned already” (John 3:18). To today's churches, John 3:16 is nice, but John 3:18 is often shunned as not nice.

    God-honoring ministries are often confrontational and sometimes harsh. Such ministries know that non-Christians will often listen to straight talk, including appropriate harshness and offensiveness. Many people have a hard shell of rebellion in need of blunt penetration prior to any chance of repentance.

    Tragically, Christians today are nicer than God. The Church has sunken into a spiritual slump by conveniently reducing confrontation. Nice people rarely rebuke, judge, confront, accuse or condemn the wicked. Nice people have less stress. Nice people get along well with others of the world. Nice people respect and compromise with ungodly value systems. However, it appears that nice people are quick to judge and condemn fellow believers who dare to rebuke and stigmatize ungodliness. Go figure.

    When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. (Ezekiel 3:18-19)

  • Uzzah
    Uzzah

    Yizu:

    Your tone icomes across just as intolerant as that of those you denounce. All that hatred guised as Christian principles.

    Shame.

  • ashitaka
    ashitaka
    All that hatred guised as Christian principles.

    You said that better in once sentence that I could have in ten paragraphs.

    ash

  • crownboy
    crownboy

    I guess the Christains missed this part of Uzzah's post:

    But NDP MP Svend Robinson, the sponsor of C-250, accused Christian lobby groups of "fearmongering" and said an amendment from Liberal MP Derek Lee explicitly protects the expression of opinion based on religious text.

    I'm very liberal, and very big on free speech, and this is indeed an area in which some liberals can be hyprocritical (though conservatives go overboard here more times than not). I'm opposed to the banning of any speech, but even if so, in this bill Christain hate speech is still being protected, so not to worry .

  • bebu
    bebu
    It is a paradox, but a strong believer can hate the unrepentant sinner while having compassion or enough love to confront him with the Truth of his sinfulness.

    ???? There are problems in this sentence. If you hate the sinner, you don't give a whip if he gets better or not. This is neither the "niceness" or "compassion" he's referring to, but sounds like some kind of condescending disdain. !!!

    This guy made Jesus sound like a seething guy on a mission to destroy everything in his path!

    I do appreciate that Jesus spoke boldly--and this got him in trouble--but the author jumped over the edge here. Christians should have the right to speak as freely as anyone about what they think is right or wrong, even if it isn't politically correct or "nice", but there's no guarantee they are speaking for God.

    bebu

  • DevonMcBride
    DevonMcBride

    It will never happen. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

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