Where are the EXJW Feminist Philosophers?

by Luther bertrand 90 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  LoveUniHateExams

  I think we need to allow for the experience that some women do genuinely prefer a patriarchal system. They don't just appear to they actually do (although I even doubt the usefulness of such a distinction) Patriarchy has benefits for women as well as drawbacks. It provides clear rules and roles whereas equality can be more chaotic and uncertain. It can provide security whereas equality can involve precariousness. Some women as well as men are always going to be attracted to that, just as fascism holds an appeal for some people especially in uncertain times.

  I can't believe you just typed that out, SBF. Please reconsider.
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  TD

  TD I think we need to allow for the experience that some women do genuinely prefer a patriarchal system. They don't just appear to they actually do

  No argument on that, but I still maintain that it is a very small minority.

  Are we talking about the same thing vis-a-vis Sheryl Sandberg? I posted a link to a TED speech given by Ms. Sandberg entitled, "Why we have too few women leaders." She points out, (I'm paraphrasing here) that appointment to a high-level executive position in a Fortune 500 company is a fiercely competitive process and that women are still learning to compete at this level.
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  slimboyfat

  LoveUni can you explain what you disagree with and why?
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  slimboyfat

  The ultimate measure of power in our capitalist society is wealth. Few women are among the wealthiest in society and even fewer of those did not inherit. These are just facts. If you don't think these facts have a bearing on equality the there's no point arguing.

  TD you point to one wealthy woman. I don't know what to say to that. It's as if I had said "there are no very wealthy self-made women". I said there are very few. I despair at having to explain the difference.
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  TD

  TD you point to one wealthy woman. I don't know what to say to that. It's as if I had said "there are no very wealthy self-made women". I said there are very few. I despair at having to explain the difference.

  I'm not pointing to her as validation of some personal crackpot theory of mine. I'm simply curious what your take is on her message. :-)
  
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  LongHairGal

  Slimboy and TD:

  Regarding the statement that some women prefer a patriarchal system:

  I am not a philosopher or even a true feminist, but it was my observation that this was definitely true in the Witness religion. Certain married women and elders' wives who were comfortable, taken care of and with positions of "honor" certainly loved it. Not to mention, they leave the thinking to a man. No need to worry their pretty heads about anything...Some of these women never worked a day in their lives. Lucky them. So, they benefited from the patriarchal system.

  I even witnessed how they would target younger single women to do favors. I was one of those younger women. However, I refused to be targeted by these people. Hell no! I worked full-time to support myself and was even criticized for it.

  I might also mention that a single woman alone in the JW religion with no relatives there is NOT protected by any patriarchal system. In fact, she is fair game for all the users..Unless, of course, she speaks up and looks out for herself - and they will hate her for that.

  These people have no regard for the fact that even though we are in modern times, a woman still has to either get married and have a man support her OR she has to educate herself and get a career---and she has a limited window of time to do it.

  All in all, the Witness religion is a very damaging place for a woman.
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  cofty

  SBF - Picture thousands of men and women who struggle equally to make ends meet, out on the streets protesting at the disgraceful shortage of self-made female billionaires.

  If you can get a sense of how Monty Python that would look perhaps you can grasp why I can't take your complaint seriously.
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  slimboyfat

  Cofty you are acting as if I had said "the lack of women billionaires is a more important issue than the poverty experienced by millions of others". Of course I said no such thing. What I said is that wealth is the ultimate measure of power in capitalist societies. And by that measure women are only weakly represented at the very top. Far from saying this is a more important problem, if we want to be utterly pedantic, I am not even saying it is a problem. I am simply saying it is a fact which does not sit well with the proposition that gender equality has already been reached.
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  LoveUniHateExams

  can you explain what you disagree with and why? - yeah, sure.

  some women do genuinely prefer a patriarchal system - no example given. Also, you've not commented on the nature of your example patriarchal system. Are you claiming that Yemeni adulteresses genuinely prefer their patriarchal system, even as their are buried in the ground up to their chests and the rocks are thudding against their faces? Pls don't answer this rhetorical question.

  Patriarchy has benefits for women as well as drawbacks - I've yet to come across this 'honest' appraisal of the patriarchy. Please write in to either The Guardian, The Independent, The Huff Post or The New Statesman. I'm sure your honest research and balanced conclusion will be listened to by the likes of Polly Toynbee, Laurie Penny, Owen Jones, etc.

  It provides clear rules and roles whereas equality can be more chaotic and uncertain - I may be a bigot, but even I can see that adult women of sound mind can think for themselves. It ain't rocket science ...
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  slimboyfat

  LoveUni you have been a JW? You've genuinely never met any sisters who have expressed feelings like: "headship is a wise arrangement", "men have leadership qualities whereas woman can empathise", "Jehovah is a God of order, in the family and the congregation", "showing respect for your husband's decisions is good even when he makes mistakes". Sisters said that sort of stuff all the time when I was growing up, not just at meetings but in general conversation. I'm not denying they said the opposite too sometimes, in anger or generally being subversive. But it seems odd to deny, what seems plainly obvious to me, that there is frequent support for male dominance among JW women as well as men.

  Invoking women being stoned to death is a bit weird so I don't know what to say about that or how it relates.

  All freedom involves losses as well as benefits. When I can drive I am more free to travel. I may also have an accident. Some people perceive the losses of equality as greater than the benefits. I am not saying I agree with that view (hardly!) I am just saying that is how some people, some sisters, view the situation.

  Who is disagreeing that woman are of sound mind? This is as confusing and out of place as the stoning comment.