Did Jesus really say: “If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also”? (Mathew 5:39)

by anointed1 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  anointed1

  If we apply to the above verse Jesus’ own criterion (“every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit”—Mathew 7:17) we will know that it is unlikely that Jesus did say it.

  When I practiced it, I found that I was encouraging others to slap (whether in its literal or figurative sense) me more and more. The same is happening in large scale when countries practice tolerance. We know many countries who “turn the other cheek” when attacked, and it only invites more trouble (which means Jesus’ advice is counterproductive).

  But see what happens if you return more than what you receive in view of the principle God Himself follows. (Exodus 20:5, 6) You probably succeed in correcting the other person. We have modern example in this regard. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor as part of their aggressive/imperialistic policy. And US made them reap the consequences [it was like jaws for tooth, not just tooth for tooth—bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima], and Japan learned the lesson: Japan stopped attacking other nations altogether.

  Interestingly, even Jesus himself did not practice “show the other cheek” advice (which is of course attributed to Jesus). When slapped, Jesus made a manly response saying: “But if I'm speaking the truth, why are you beating me?” (John 18:23) Because he was yet to make his final statement on this: “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done” (Revelation 22:12) which means he has never told us to ‘turn other cheek also when slapped on the left.’
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  megaboy

  I've thought for a long time that when these things were said, it implied that the community in that day and age was not nearly as stupid as people today. Today the average Christain looking at that saying is a recipe for disaster.

  The ancient hebrew culture is extremely expressive. So knowing that, if you look at the original law he was countering, "an eye for an eye", it was basically the hard lesson on doing to others what you want done to you, this way you could avoid having your eye taken altogther. BUT if a person is consumed by the desire to get back at someone, it creates an endless cycle.

  What he was saying is that a person should seek to make peace over seeking revenge. It was a fancy way of saying "you would seek revenge, but at what cost?"

  It is fine standing up for yourself when need be. It is foolish to roll over and get kicked in the face willingly.

  Also the western empire was causing issues in Japan, causing them to bite back, I'm assuming its not propagated in secular history books because they don't want people realizing that the western empire is much worse than even portrayed in the media and what they do allow in public history courses. This wasnt a case of Japan learning a lesson, but the cycle causing serious damage to one party. Because the western world has causes so much violence, particularly the US, a lot of money goes into military. Its similar to how a crook goes on so long and now no longer has rest and has to station himself in a hide out ot base with tons of weapons.
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  anointed1

  megaboy

  You say “What he was saying is that a person should seek to make peace over seeking revenge. It was a fancy way of saying "you would seek revenge, but at what cost?"

  If this is what Jesus originally meant,

  1) What was the difficulty for Jesus to say the same by using the simple words such as ‘seek peace because revenge would bring a cycle of violence.

  2) Why should Jesus set one standard for humans, and totally different for him as in Rev 22:12?

  Even if we take it as you say, still we will have to ask “but at what cost?” Look at what India do. It goes on ‘turning the other cheek’ and others go on using it to their benefit.
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  scratchme1010

  Did Jesus really say: “If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also”? (Mathew 5:39)
  

  Who knows, who cares.

  What I say is "if anyone slaps me on the right cheek, (s)he will have a reminder of my second amendment right".
  
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  anointed1

  scratchme1010

  There are people who care about this because for them every verse of the Bible is "inspired and beneficial"
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  Vidiot

  anointed1 - "...I found that I was encouraging others to slap (whether in its literal or figurative sense) me more and more..."

  Yup. The more shit you take from people, the more they'll give you.

  This harsh reality made it very difficult for me to not resent the "turn the other cheek" thing.

  

  The promise that he'll receive "God's blessing" if he does is small comfort to a bullied child... odds are he'll simply grow up thinking God wants him to be picked on.
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  megaboy

  For the two questions directed to me.

  1) Its in the Hebrew culture to illustrate this way, exaggerated illustrations don't always work for some people, but his main audience would get it. He also did this because it would seperate people who don't care with people who did. Basically like how he drew a line in the sand during the Exodus.

  2) Depending on what you read in hebrew works, they have works implying that in the end times the nations are actually diliberately working agaisnt him and know exactly what they are doing, even anticipating his return. I read one piece even saying that even though they were terrified of him they were dead set on attacking him. There was no peacable option in the cards, no misunderstandings.
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  anointed1

  megaboy

  So, you mean to say those who understand will understand, and others will not.

  Here I agree with you because we have Joseph resisting the attempt of the temptress when there was no law given against adultery, and we have David murdering his faithful friend to steal his wife in spite of having many wives and concubines when there was law given against adultery.

  This would mean that there is no need of anyone instructing others—especially using parable and exaggeration.
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  anointed1

  megaboy

  In the second point, you resort to threat which is not necessary if you take other things Jesus said. He himself warned that after he would leave, wasteful additions will be made to his teachings. (Mathew 13:24-26). Hence weed out the Bible and take only what appeals to “reason” which is what true worship means (Romans 12:1, 2; 1Thess 5:21) Hence what I am doing is something that Jesus would surely commend.
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  scratchme1010

  There are people who care about this because for them every verse of the Bible is "inspired and beneficial"
  

  They shouldn't. It's all nonsense.