by apocalypse 103 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • apocalypse
    StephaneLaliberte2 hours ago
    As a reminder, you should provide copies of your completed Advance Decision document to (1) those who served as witnesses, (2) your General Practitioner (doctor), and (3) your congregation secretary.

    This is coercion. Someone saying no ...

    You may believe that filling out the ADD, sending them copies and then, going to a lawyer and doctors to give them different sets of instruction will get you out of this gem. Well. No.


    Actually Steph... YES.

    The point is, if a newly awakened JW gets in an accident, and they are not going to refuse blood, then they will wake up DF'd anyway, regardless of the paperwork. You are talking about after the 'horse is out of the barn'.

    The point is, how can one stay hidden at the congo while the horse is still in the barn.

    The point is, NOT getting DF'd right now while still in perfect health.

  • Esse quam videri

    Let's have a formal discussion that outlines the former and current history of the JW medical directive.

    As far as I know, there has never been any hint of forcing any choice on Dubs. It's just that they are presented with few choices. The WTBTS has went out of its way to suggest that medical choices are personal. They won't always DF for transfusions either.

    Perhaps the WTBTS wants some way of measuring loyalty, but there are better ways to do it. They could have a resolution read at meetings, each congregant could be counted and then sign something.

    This sounds like legal CYA to me. They just want to ensure that if you die, following current truth, they can't be sued for $$$. They aren't going to start DF'ing people for not turning in this card. They aren't that dumb.

    I won't turn it in, and I won't be DF'd.


  • Pistoff

    The first thing I did when I woke up is throw away my blood card.

    What a great feeling.

  • Finkelstein

    So what your saying then Data is that they will only DF a person if they have signed the document ?

    I thought the recent policy was to not DF a person if they choose to receive a BT but to only DF if they are openly opposed to the doctrine itself, then take away privileges and positions in the congregation ie. elders and so forth ??

    Take a BT and be quiet about it gets you a frown and a private reproof, take a BT and be openly against the doctrine, will get you DFed.

  • StephaneLaliberte

    apocalypse: Up until this letter, you could go in ER, get a blood transfusion and the doctors would not talk to the elders about it. And if the elders ended up knowing about that transfusion somehow, you could say: "Oups, my bad... forgot to renew my ADD after I damaged my entire wallet while swimming in the lake." You wouldn't be DFd for this. You probably wouldn't loose any privileges as well!

    Now, since the elders have a copy of a document with your signature on it, they could very well hear the doctor say: "I have another document that overrides what you have." With this information, they'll DF you.

  • BluesBrother

    This new Blood Card (A.D,D) is definitely real - I have seen a copy of one. For some while the Cong Secretary has maintained a list of copies of the bros cards . There was a recent reminder that he should tell the elder to whose group a publisher was assigned if he did not have one.

    The zeal with which they follow these things up depends entirely on the local body . I know that my wife had not completed the old card - too complicated .... Perhaps she will the new simplified one ? Certainly I have not done so.

    We have never been asked about it

  • StephaneLaliberte
    Finkelstein: They would NOT disfellowship you only if they felt you gave in to fear. Hence, if you said "yes" to a blood transfusion moments before going under the knife and showed sincere remorse, they would not disfellowship you. However, if you have some other directive that overrides your JW's ADD (as suggested by apocalypse), than, that will show that you do not believe in their blood doctrine at all: you'll be disfellowshiped.
  • StephaneLaliberte
    Data Dog, you are right, they won't disfellowship people for not giving in photocopies of their ADD. However, I do believe that those who do not follow that instruction will not be viewed as "privilege" material. And depending on the local BOE, some could live much greater pressure.
  • Finkelstein

    Stepahane that may work out if the circumstances were that you didn't sign a BT release forum at the hospital which is usually the case in most modernized countries and there no elders snooping around.

    Personally I think this idea also to give the elders the per-approval OK to peer into each event as to contact the involving doctors.

    Kind of like a go ahead and peek into the situation themselves if the elders desire to do so.

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