When did the Great Crowd start forming?

by Vanderhoven7 35 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Dissonant15

    I remember old ones saying how "relieved" they felt when it was announced not everyone is going to heaven because they personally didn't want to go to heaven.

    I just don't want to go anywhere, if they're there!

    ... And we got SW tickets to the 3rd show time ( why is that a part of this thread?).

  • Doug Mason
  • Vanderhoven7

    I appreciate the responses thus far. Thank you.

    Actually Doug, it was your primary study URL that I began reading and bookmarked before putting this question to forum members.

    The reason I am asking is that I'm preparing a few strategic questions for Witnesses like, "How many faithful to death Christians could possibly have existed before (the alleged date GC members began being called)?Obviously the answer would have to be less than 150,000. So if Jesus saved fewer than 150,000 in 1900 years...how do they explain the 7 million Christians who were martyred for their faith just in the first 3 centuries of the CE alone.

    So it would be helpful to have a baseline date like 1900 or 1914 for the beginning of the call according to WT mythology.

  • _Morpheus
    I think the revelation book set 1935 as the start of the ingathering of the great crowd. That quote from OTWO looks almost word for word like the rev book information. Your logic about how many chrostains lived before that date, and thus how few christains had ever lived prior to 1914, is very solid and ive read it before, maybe in CoC or perhaps on jw.facts Its a glaring hole in wt theology, which of course is akin to saying the titanic sprung a leak.
  • prologos

    7 hours ago

    I..how do they explain the 7 million Christians who were martyred for their faith just in the first 3 centuries of the CE alone.

    explain?, easy, since there was no Faithfull & Discreet Slave before 1919, there could not have been spiritual food, no overlapping generations, no domestics. so: these misguided tens of millions can not be of the 144 000, they will have to be resurrected as OS to join the GC in paradise. They will be surprised to learn they all should never have partook of the wine and bread. that is where the teaching service in the New World comes in. to make them see the errors of their ways.so

    VH77 link the GC question to the partaking & abstaining.

  • Vanderhoven7

    Thank you Morpheus and Prologos

    Prologos...I would respond by asking if the gospel was clear from the scriptures; the scriptures being adequate to make one wise to salvation, for doctrine, for correction etc. that the man of God might be thoroughly furnished...

    Then I'd ask - So you deny that those who sacrificed their lives for the Lord were not saved? What makes you think your 7 million followers are any different?

    But BTW, I found a way to ask the question without knowing the date. What you think?

    - What is the maximum number of faithful Christians that could have existed prior to the 20th Century?

  • _Morpheus
    Good way to ask. Let them put a date on it. It dosent really matter for purpose of your point what date they choose
  • myelaine

    dear Vander...

    You now know that WT has amended that teaching and so dishonest baiting isn't much of a strategy.

    why not be frank? The WT taught...blah, blah, blah, and then the changed that teaching as recorded in such and such magazine. Now, because aspects of the new teaching are more in alignment with this particular scripture can "you" answer why or how a bible-based organization could be so wrong in the first place if they believe all scripture is profitable....etc?

    Isn't honesty the best policy? like, what if the witness whips out the WT questions from readers that prologos cited?...then what are you going to say?

  • prologos

    I can not treat thjs question but with the spice of humour as in my post above , relating to the latter day Faithful& Discreet Slave. To come to a good turn of events, You would have to ask preliminary questions like: Did not all Christians partake of the emblem since The First Memorial? (ignore the fact that the first partakers were not Christian=anointed); then ask:- so when did the Other sheep christians start abstaining? so,-- then since that convention, there were two classes of Christians? OH, so the Other sheep Great Crowd members are not Christians? so, you are saying that almost all partakers before 1919 will not be in heaven but resurrected on Earth? Can you see how not partaking is a mistake, because of that, you will have to work 1000 years in slavery to reach the same status that partaking affords "true Christians" right away?

    Perhaps you can get them to laugh along with you at the answers and that will take the edge off the confrontation.

    or keep going: Since to get everlasting life, you have to partake (John 6.) , will the Great Crowd start partaking after they come out of the great tribulation? going back to the Last Supper situation where the Earthly Class guests Partook?

  • paradisebeauty
    When Rutherford started drinking too much.

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